Current guard mechanics

[nocturnalguest]

Spoiler:

It's unlikely to be (A).
See the attached log, for example, where the incoming damage is from a solo AM.

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Iirc there was info on wiki years ago where it was mentioned that strikethru affects tanks chances to avoid guard damage, according to you picture its valid info. Last guard was messed with was additional checks, afaik it was added back then and havent been removed along with unneccesary checks but for the greater good it should be fixed

[leftayparxoun]

I can verify that guard avoidance checks are affected by the original attacker's strikethrough.

I have confirmation both from a member of the balance team and from an actual in-game experiment (N~1000 hits).

Basically this means that if the attacker has parry strikethrough = SP% and block strikethrough = SB%, then an SnB tank with P% parry and B% block that is doing avoidance checks for the guard damage will have:

• For block:
  B% - SB% or B%/2 chance to block the guard damage (whichever is higher)

• And for parry:
  P% - SP% or P%/2 chance to parry the guard damage (whichever is higher)

Up until here things are known and confirmed.

The OP's question (which I have no idea how the system works for) is what happens in the case of mages.

Do they substitute their disrupt strikethrough in the parry check for the tank avoidance? Do they use their minimal parry strikethrough from Strength? Or, perhaps, do they have 0% strikethrough in the parry check by default?

[Wdova]

I can verify that guard avoidance checks are affected by the original attacker's strikethrough.

I have confirmation both from a member of the balance team and from an actual in-game experiment (N~1000 hits).

Basically this means that if the attacker has parry strikethrough = SP% and block strikethrough = SB%, then an SnB tank with P% parry and B% block that is doing avoidance checks for the guard damage will have:

• For block:
  B% - SB% or B%/2 chance to block the guard damage (whichever is higher)

• And for parry:
  P% - SP% or P%/2 chance to parry the guard damage (whichever is higher)

Up until here things are known and confirmed.

The OP's question (which I have no idea how the system works for) is what happens in the case of mages.

Do they substitute their disrupt strikethrough in the parry check for the tank avoidance? Do they use their minimal parry strikethrough from Strength? Or, perhaps, do they have 0% strikethrough in the parry check by default?

Thank you for clarify this. I don´t understand why strikethru should work that way, because for me it doesn´t make any sence. Having strikethru vs character you don´t hit. Maybe from balance reasons? I dont know.

[Ysaran]

I can verify that guard avoidance checks are affected by the original attacker's strikethrough.

I have confirmation both from a member of the balance team and from an actual in-game experiment (N~1000 hits).

Basically this means that if the attacker has parry strikethrough = SP% and block strikethrough = SB%, then an SnB tank with P% parry and B% block that is doing avoidance checks for the guard damage will have:

• For block:
  B% - SB% or B%/2 chance to block the guard damage (whichever is higher)

• And for parry:
  P% - SP% or P%/2 chance to parry the guard damage (whichever is higher)

Up until here things are known and confirmed.

The OP's question (which I have no idea how the system works for) is what happens in the case of mages.

Do they substitute their disrupt strikethrough in the parry check for the tank avoidance? Do they use their minimal parry strikethrough from Strength? Or, perhaps, do they have 0% strikethrough in the parry check by default?

Thank you for clarify this. I don´t understand why strikethru should work that way, because for me it doesn´t make any sence. Having strikethru vs character you don´t hit. Maybe from balance reasons? I dont know.

As far as I know it was like this since live. It was the Big problem of Rampage since then. Having 100% strikethrough meant that guarding the Slayer target would make you the target of unmitigable and unavoidable damage.

But yeah, no reason at all for this mechanic. Not having it would have solved so many problems in the past years

[Nekkma]

I can verify that guard avoidance checks are affected by the original attacker's strikethrough.

I have confirmation both from a member of the balance team and from an actual in-game experiment (N~1000 hits).

Basically this means that if the attacker has parry strikethrough = SP% and block strikethrough = SB%, then an SnB tank with P% parry and B% block that is doing avoidance checks for the guard damage will have:

• For block:
  B% - SB% or B%/2 chance to block the guard damage (whichever is higher)

• And for parry:
  P% - SP% or P%/2 chance to parry the guard damage (whichever is higher)

Up until here things are known and confirmed.

The OP's question (which I have no idea how the system works for) is what happens in the case of mages.

Do they substitute their disrupt strikethrough in the parry check for the tank avoidance? Do they use their minimal parry strikethrough from Strength? Or, perhaps, do they have 0% strikethrough in the parry check by default?

Thank you for clarify this. I don´t understand why strikethru should work that way, because for me it doesn´t make any sence. Having strikethru vs character you don´t hit. Maybe from balance reasons? I dont know.

As far as I know it was like this since live. It was the Big problem of Rampage since then. Having 100% strikethrough meant that guarding the Slayer target would make you the target of unmitigable and unavoidable damage.

But yeah, no reason at all for this mechanic. Not having it would have solved so many problems in the past years

No, it was not like this on live. Guard dmg was considered a STR 1 attack meaning no strikethrough. Also, you passively gained 25 % parry on guard dmg as you hade more than 4 WS.

[nocturnalguest]

As far as I know it was like this since live. It was the Big problem of Rampage since then. Having 100% strikethrough meant that guarding the Slayer target would make you the target of unmitigable and unavoidable damage.

But yeah, no reason at all for this mechanic. Not having it would have solved so many problems in the past years

No, you missremeber, live worked differently (ror actively mess up with combat formulas too, they are not the same for avoidance, ini/crit, toughness and many other things). Also rampage on live didnt affect guard&morales, it was ror feature only (and still is for guard)
Like i already said, im almost sure (its just i dont have code sources to be absolutely sure) thats one very important RoR team person thing when one suddenly didnt find logic in parrying a fireball and some of the coders actually did that avoidance revamp undocumented and exactly in this time that strikethru part has been added and new team members somehow still didnt cut it off (and i believe its important to do it, cause this thing makes quite little sense (sorry slayers using rampage and rejoice tanks playing orvr)).

[Ysaran]

Thank you for clarify this. I don´t understand why strikethru should work that way, because for me it doesn´t make any sence. Having strikethru vs character you don´t hit. Maybe from balance reasons? I dont know.

As far as I know it was like this since live. It was the Big problem of Rampage since then. Having 100% strikethrough meant that guarding the Slayer target would make you the target of unmitigable and unavoidable damage.

But yeah, no reason at all for this mechanic. Not having it would have solved so many problems in the past years

No, it was not like this on live. Guard dmg was considered a STR 1 attack meaning no strikethrough. Also, you passively gained 25 % parry on guard dmg as you hade more than 4 WS.

My bad. Still, I believe that unnerfing Rampage and making guard as in live (at least on this point) would be good.