[scenarios] barriers

[Alubert]

Before the changes related to SC matchmaking come into effect, you can quickly deal with prem farming pugs.

Yes and you had range premades withdrawing into guards or warcamps to farm enemies. And no, you could not just "let them be" that is not something you can do against a range premade that consantly harrases you. Until a better solution is found, this is certainly the better of the two bad ones that currently exist.

One idea is making the barriers passable again after like 30 seconds once you passed them.

So what?
If they don't want to, they don't have to attack the WC.
The point is that the opponent shouldn't be able to get a free kill just because you crossed the barrier.

Especially since we all know how mele train vs Rdps ends.

Rdps has to kite, and if there's nowhere to go, i.e. the WC, it equals a dead Rdps.

To those who don't see the problem.
Imagine that the devs come up with a wonderful idea (like they did with barriers in SC) and surround the entire ORVR with a barrier, including the WC. Once you leave, you can't come back.

I see that there are those who still don't see what is obvious to others. Like back when some defend SL broken Rampage.

[calipso]

Before the changes related to SC matchmaking come into effect, you can quickly deal with prem farming pugs.

Yes and you had range premades withdrawing into guards or warcamps to farm enemies. And no, you could not just "let them be" that is not something you can do against a range premade that consantly harrases you. Until a better solution is found, this is certainly the better of the two bad ones that currently exist.

One idea is making the barriers passable again after like 30 seconds once you passed them.

So what?
If they don't want to, they don't have to attack the WC.
The point is that the opponent shouldn't be able to get a free kill just because you crossed the barrier.

Especially since we all know how mele train vs Rdps ends.

Rdps has to kite, and if there's nowhere to go, i.e. the WC, it equals a dead Rdps.

To those who don't see the problem.
Imagine that the devs come up with a wonderful idea (like they did with barriers in SC) and surround the entire ORVR with a barrier, including the WC. Once you leave, you can't come back.

I see that there are those who still don't see what is obvious to others. Like back when some defend SL broken Rampage.

If you had the urge to redesign a whole mood in order to catch certain classes, it is completely wrong.
Is either a problem with balanced class has or ,as a player, not being skilled enough to deal with that class.

[georgehabadasher]

Before the changes related to SC matchmaking come into effect, you can quickly deal with prem farming pugs.

Yes and you had range premades withdrawing into guards or warcamps to farm enemies. And no, you could not just "let them be" that is not something you can do against a range premade that consantly harrases you. Until a better solution is found, this is certainly the better of the two bad ones that currently exist.

One idea is making the barriers passable again after like 30 seconds once you passed them.

Are you sure this is real and not pretend? It's a non issue if you get farmed near the enemy warcamp. What are you even doing there? Spawncamping? If so you should be punished for it and it's good the enemy sniped you. I can't think of one scenario where the spawn is so close to an objective that it would matter. Please explainand give an example of a scenario where this matters (excluding 6v6 ranked).

Logrin's forge and high pass cemetary are two. Ironically, logrin's forge is one of the scs that still has guards and no barriers. However, it'd be a lot easier to just remove those from the rotation or add guards to them only.

[calipso]

Yes and you had range premades withdrawing into guards or warcamps to farm enemies. And no, you could not just "let them be" that is not something you can do against a range premade that consantly harrases you. Until a better solution is found, this is certainly the better of the two bad ones that currently exist.

One idea is making the barriers passable again after like 30 seconds once you passed them.

Are you sure this is real and not pretend? It's a non issue if you get farmed near the enemy warcamp. What are you even doing there? Spawncamping? If so you should be punished for it and it's good the enemy sniped you. I can't think of one scenario where the spawn is so close to an objective that it would matter. Please explainand give an example of a scenario where this matters (excluding 6v6 ranked).

Logrin's forge and high pass cemetary are two. Ironically, logrin's forge is one of the scs that still has guards and no barriers. However, it'd be a lot easier to just remove those from the rotation or add guards to them only.

LF and HPC BOs have close BOs, but not enough close for rdps to snipe everybody from WC.
LF sc Guards are just dolls at the background, same as HPC (in case enemy is punted inside the WC, we don’t want them to die by guards… God forbid it).
SP is even more laughable bc weapons inside WC, behind barriers, doesn’t work at all, just like BfP.
And so on… for the exception of DB, that doesn’t have barriers but got guards outside of the WC. -edit- and RF.

We have discussed this issue for years, even Devs made a thread asking us how to improve scenarios, pages of good ideas and how to make them great again. Thread was lost through out the years and not a single idea taking into consideration.
As someone pointed out already, got no hopes of them being great again, mostly for the fact of united currency, which made em irrelevant.

[georgehabadasher]

Are you sure this is real and not pretend? It's a non issue if you get farmed near the enemy warcamp. What are you even doing there? Spawncamping? If so you should be punished for it and it's good the enemy sniped you. I can't think of one scenario where the spawn is so close to an objective that it would matter. Please explainand give an example of a scenario where this matters (excluding 6v6 ranked).

Logrin's forge and high pass cemetary are two. Ironically, logrin's forge is one of the scs that still has guards and no barriers. However, it'd be a lot easier to just remove those from the rotation or add guards to them only.

LF and HPC BOs have close BOs, but not enough close for rdps to snipe everybody from WC.
LF sc Guards are just dolls at the background, same as HPC (in case enemy is punted inside the WC, we don’t want them to die by guards… God forbid it).
SP is even more laughable bc weapons inside WC, behind barriers, doesn’t work at all, just like BfP.
And so on… for the exception of DB, that doesn’t have barriers but got guards outside of the WC. -edit- and RF.

We have discussed this issue for years, even Devs made a thread asking us how to improve scenarios, pages of good ideas and how to make them great again. Thread was lost through out the years and not a single idea taking into consideration.
As someone pointed out already, got no hopes of them being great again, mostly for the fact of united currency, which made em irrelevant.

Don't get me wrong, I definitely agree with removing barriers from SCs. That was a disastrous change that's contributed to the destruction of scenarios and consequently player skill and small-scale RvR play.

However, ranged groups are able to dominate the middle of those two maps while easily kiting back to WC to punt people into guards.

[Aethilmar]

Logrin's forge and high pass cemetary are two. Ironically, logrin's forge is one of the scs that still has guards and no barriers. However, it'd be a lot easier to just remove those from the rotation or add guards to them only.

LF and HPC BOs have close BOs, but not enough close for rdps to snipe everybody from WC.
LF sc Guards are just dolls at the background, same as HPC (in case enemy is punted inside the WC, we don’t want them to die by guards… God forbid it).
SP is even more laughable bc weapons inside WC, behind barriers, doesn’t work at all, just like BfP.
And so on… for the exception of DB, that doesn’t have barriers but got guards outside of the WC. -edit- and RF.

We have discussed this issue for years, even Devs made a thread asking us how to improve scenarios, pages of good ideas and how to make them great again. Thread was lost through out the years and not a single idea taking into consideration.
As someone pointed out already, got no hopes of them being great again, mostly for the fact of united currency, which made em irrelevant.

Don't get me wrong, I definitely agree with removing barriers from SCs. That was a disastrous change that's contributed to the destruction of scenarios and consequently player skill and small-scale RvR play.

However, ranged groups are able to dominate the middle of those two maps while easily kiting back to WC to punt people into guards.

And why shouldn't there be SCs where ranged dominate?

They were called "scenarios" for a reason. They were originally intended to force people to play in different ways to win. And the current devs took them and made just about every single one of them into "fight on the point or lose" with no chance of a comeback if you were even slightly outmatched i.e. murder box simulators.

[Bozao]

I didn't quite understand what you're proposing, but I've already talked about something similar. To me, the barrier, combined with the fact that if you go AFK, it only demonstrates the interest of whoever created this system in farming PUGs (Pick-Up Groups). It's very clear to me that the current system of queues, barriers, and preventing AFK players was created by those who guarantee they always play in premades.

[Speedyluck]

worst design ever.

[georgehabadasher]

LF and HPC BOs have close BOs, but not enough close for rdps to snipe everybody from WC.
LF sc Guards are just dolls at the background, same as HPC (in case enemy is punted inside the WC, we don’t want them to die by guards… God forbid it).
SP is even more laughable bc weapons inside WC, behind barriers, doesn’t work at all, just like BfP.
And so on… for the exception of DB, that doesn’t have barriers but got guards outside of the WC. -edit- and RF.

We have discussed this issue for years, even Devs made a thread asking us how to improve scenarios, pages of good ideas and how to make them great again. Thread was lost through out the years and not a single idea taking into consideration.
As someone pointed out already, got no hopes of them being great again, mostly for the fact of united currency, which made em irrelevant.

Don't get me wrong, I definitely agree with removing barriers from SCs. That was a disastrous change that's contributed to the destruction of scenarios and consequently player skill and small-scale RvR play.

However, ranged groups are able to dominate the middle of those two maps while easily kiting back to WC to punt people into guards.

And why shouldn't there be SCs where ranged dominate?

They were called "scenarios" for a reason. They were originally intended to force people to play in different ways to win. And the current devs took them and made just about every single one of them into "fight on the point or lose" with no chance of a comeback if you were even slightly outmatched i.e. murder box simulators.

Agree that devs have severely misunderstood the purpose of scenario objectives. However, you can have scenarios that favor range without having guards within 150ft of the area of play. Scenarios like Serpent's Passage or Blood of the Black Cairn are examples of scenarios where ranged comps have an advantage. Lots of open space and room to kite.

[Bozzax]

Scenarios as a game mode always was good enough to stand on it own. WOH even was created bc of how well it worked

Adding groups priority and sc barriers killed it entirely. This is where the sc backbone (regulars) left

The so called organised scenarios are crazy bad failures. The cross faction is a the worst idea ever in a warhammer setting

Simple as that lots of effort that made scs less

Ps quitter should be taken out as well as it actually increases the frequency of **** lineups and gives strong sides to high crest earnings. Let scs end by playing the objectives instead of teaching players objectives are secondary