A reflection on stealth classes

[Deadpoet]

This subject brings out so many Cry Babies, i can't stop laughing

Agree. So many cry babies crying at the unlikely possibility that one of their OP tools could be removed.

[Stinkyweed]

...but what about WL escape tools and the snare pet?

(It's not a proper discussion without saying WLs are OP)

[Incertname]

Dude, I don't want to be that guy, but def WE/WH recieved EVERY possible nerf imaginable. If you die to them, you're either underlvl/undergeared, you're a scout SW, or you suck at the game.

[nat3s]

I think WE/WH need a buff tbh. I play exclusively solo roaming setups, regen magus, regen chosen, zealot, AM and sham.

I find WE/WH to be free renown in 1v1 scenarios. If you compare a def WE to your regular glass cannon setup most people seem to embrace in rvr, then that's a bit disingenuous. If you compare like-for-like solo built chars, WH/WE are not that oppressive.

Depends if you can swallow your ego or not, some people literally cannot handle death despite there being 0 consequences in RoR. I'm a big Eve Online and Albion Online player, full loot games are my thing. Any game that can bring that feeling of risk to a sandpit area, just feels cool. I've lost 50b supers in Eve (that's roughly 20 months worth of sub time in PLEX) and have risked a titan on 2 occasions in mega DD brawls. That's a true sense of risk, which also brings a massive social hook i.e. you're in the trenches with your friends who are risking things of equal value to fight alongside you, you just cannot beat that feeling in an MMO. We need WH/WE and others to bring that sense of danger as there's no full loot mechanics to do it. Where's the fun if there are no stealth classes and everyone just WB zergs? Such a game would feel profoundly shallow to me.

Personally I'd be happy for WH/WE to get perma stealth, like DAOC days.

[Gladiolix]

I think WE/WH need a buff tbh. I play exclusively solo roaming setups, regen magus, regen chosen, zealot, AM and sham.

I find WE/WH to be free renown in 1v1 scenarios. If you compare a def WE to your regular glass cannon setup most people seem to embrace in rvr, then that's a bit disingenuous. If you compare like-for-like solo built chars, WH/WE are not that oppressive.

Depends if you can swallow your ego or not, some people literally cannot handle death despite there being 0 consequences in RoR. I'm a big Eve Online and Albion Online player, full loot games are my thing. Any game that can bring that feeling of risk to a sandpit area, just feels cool. I've lost 50b supers in Eve (that's roughly 20 months worth of sub time in PLEX) and have risked a titan on 2 occasions in mega DD brawls. That's a true sense of risk, which also brings a massive social hook i.e. you're in the trenches with your friends who are risking things of equal value to fight alongside you, you just cannot beat that feeling in an MMO. We need WH/WE and others to bring that sense of danger as there's no full loot mechanics to do it. Where's the fun if there are no stealth classes and everyone just WB zergs? Such a game would feel profoundly shallow to me.

Personally I'd be happy for WH/WE to get perma stealth, like DAOC days.

You say you like risk but you exclusively play risk free regen deftard setups..?

[nat3s]

I think WE/WH need a buff tbh. I play exclusively solo roaming setups, regen magus, regen chosen, zealot, AM and sham.

I find WE/WH to be free renown in 1v1 scenarios. If you compare a def WE to your regular glass cannon setup most people seem to embrace in rvr, then that's a bit disingenuous. If you compare like-for-like solo built chars, WH/WE are not that oppressive.

Depends if you can swallow your ego or not, some people literally cannot handle death despite there being 0 consequences in RoR. I'm a big Eve Online and Albion Online player, full loot games are my thing. Any game that can bring that feeling of risk to a sandpit area, just feels cool. I've lost 50b supers in Eve (that's roughly 20 months worth of sub time in PLEX) and have risked a titan on 2 occasions in mega DD brawls. That's a true sense of risk, which also brings a massive social hook i.e. you're in the trenches with your friends who are risking things of equal value to fight alongside you, you just cannot beat that feeling in an MMO. We need WH/WE and others to bring that sense of danger as there's no full loot mechanics to do it. Where's the fun if there are no stealth classes and everyone just WB zergs? Such a game would feel profoundly shallow to me.

Personally I'd be happy for WH/WE to get perma stealth, like DAOC days.

You say you like risk but you exclusively play risk free regen deftard setups..?

that's the meta right now, if it changes, so will the classes I play. I think you're conflating meta with risk, very different things. You want everyone to feel risk, not just off meta specs.

To give an example, I'll get WB stomped maybe 20 times in an evening playing solo, every corner I turn could be an insta port to warcamp. Not much I can do as a solo to counter 6-24 people. When I do get a 1v1, which can take up to an hour sometimes, yes I have the upper hand because of how I've setup my chars, which is why I have a 90% winrate if you filter to solo kills, but overall I'm still getting owned more than I'm owning from groups/WBs rolling through me. HOWEVER, I don't want anything to change there, I LOVE the fact I can round a corner into certain death, it makes solo roaming feel rewarding as you're battling through that perceived risk.

You're not seeing the other side of the coin, that regen chosen that's annoying you 1v1 is getting squished a ton by roaming WBs, their KDA is almost certainly not in great shape.

[Farrul]

I think WE/WH need a buff tbh. I play exclusively solo roaming setups, regen magus, regen chosen, zealot, AM and sham.

I find WE/WH to be free renown in 1v1 scenarios. If you compare a def WE to your regular glass cannon setup most people seem to embrace in rvr, then that's a bit disingenuous. If you compare like-for-like solo built chars, WH/WE are not that oppressive.

Personally I'd be happy for WH/WE to get perma stealth, like DAOC days.

Interesting how you list 4 destro top tier toons and 1 order and no surprise the AM(THE best order toon lol) to justify your point, well as it is neither of those destro toons has to fight the Def WE, and yes most of them destroys the WH 1vs1 since the WH isn't on par with Def WE and has been nerfed too much.

But i do agree otherwise, WH/None Def WE deserves to be buffed, none def WE is a free kill and so is WH for OP abominations like regen Magus.

P.S. Perma stealth is a terrible idea( look at WoW Rogue as reference) but i do think the stealth should be increased to before nerf values, it just drains AP way too fast imho.

[Incertname]

Dude, I don't want to be that guy, but def WE/WH recieved EVERY possible nerf imaginable. If you die to them, you're either underlvl/undergeared, you're a scout SW, or you suck at the game.

Well, "every possible nerf imaginable", and yet def WE being a very popular ocurrence in the lakes and one of the better ganking classes...Like, even if it were true, and at the same time not true for all the other classes that could claim the same nerfdom, doesn't your own statement make you think?

"underlvl/undergeared, scout SW or suck": Are these the only victims to poor def WE subclass? I'm afraid a quick look at killboard would quickly disabuse anyone of such notions.

I understand you might have reacted to this post passionately for some reason. You might still be in time to delete your post before more people read it and associate you with these very questionable statements, and on top of that draw the logical conclusion that, in case you do play WE, you suck terribly at it.

Bro I play Knight, WL, and sometimes WP. "Standard" WEs are so easy to kill, and def WE don't do enough damage to be an issue. Easiest way to counter both is to move in groups, which you should be doing anyway.

Whenever I play SC, WEs in general are pretty middling. I really don't know what you mean by 'look at the killboard'.

I will level with you however. I hate WEs. I hate playing them, I hate playing with them. I hate talking about them. And I hate their stupid goddamn coldbloods. I can tell you all the ways to kill WEs if you want me to.

[Deadpoet]

I agree with you that WEs are not much im.scs. i think we were talking about different circumstances then. I am talking in the lakes, smallscale, solo duo etc. If you check killboard for regular def WE solo players you wili know what I mean.
In any case, I don't generally die to def WE. My problem is that almost everytime I am winning the fight and am about to kill them, they just vanish. Feels like that teleport scroll that some people had bsck on live that allowed people to evade any fight if they were losing, until the devs fixed It.
As I said before, just make It that speed vanish require a hostile target or simply give stealthers a charge, but remove this impunity AltF4 midfight bailout. 6 sec stun+backflip was more than enough to disengage.

[F4llen4ngel]

just make It that speed vanish require a hostile target

I dont get it how it would help you, or them not to vanish, they have a hostile target already, you, but its a run thing, not anything else. If you mean, that speed vansih should have a hostile target to work like a pounce/ jump to?, well WE already have that too. Not trolling, just curious. Thanks.