So the WH changes seem pretty busted

[gersy]

Id much rather have the damage personally. Also ur ignoring the fact that when u introduce guard and healers into small scale things do not die. are we balancing the game around opening on a solo squigherder or that?

if things don't die in smallscale, due to "guards and healers", the issue is not with the design of the game. the issue is with you/your teammates' skill, group composition and understanding of the game. sorry to say but this is the case and always has been the case. if you are coordinating your kill attempts properly with guard punt, KD on kill target and offtank to prevent guard swap, morale drop, saving burst abilities/cooldowns to use at the proper time, having your healers use silence/stagger against enemy healers, etc then 98% of players will die very fast and easy. trust me on that one, most "premades" or "teams" fall down instantly because most players haven't a clue what to do when you begin to initiate using proper tactics against them.

So ttk in scs is apparently fine and your 'to do' list to get a kill is punting the guard -> kd the target -> prevent guard swap -> get multiple dps on 1 target with cds -> silence enemy healers.

Ye dude most people just want to play an mmorpg queue up and pwn some noobs. Let dmg dealers do dmg.

my point is that they DO deal damage and that the game has a specific ecosystem and rubric, a set of "rules" to how the combat works, if that makes sense. this game at its core is very teamplay based from a fundamental and foundational standpoint especially in RoR since for many years it was balanced around 6v6 and smallscale specifically (whether this was a good or bad choice, i won't comment on, merely that it is our reality). mechanics like guard, punt, morales and CC are at the core of scoring kills, damage is not the only necessary component in killing or winning. there are other factors at play besides simply "doing damage".

i understand that people just "want to queue up and play", however as with basically all pvp games there is a certain degree of understanding required to succeed more often than you lose. if someone only wants to queue up and deal damage (play choppa in warband and spam 3 buttons without a care in the world) while forsaking every other aspect of the game, despite how frontloaded and obvious the mechanics make themselves, then they forfeit the right to valid complaints and their opinion is easily discarded by those who have a clue about the game and especially those who are in charge of decision making. players must either put in the effort to learn and grow or stay casual.

both of these options are okay and i do not dislike someone for choosing either path but if you choose to not put in any effort and continually go against the design of the game then you should not be surprised when things go poorly for you. this understanding is seemingly lost on most of the community and some players feel entitled without just cause then come to the forums, advice chat, RoR disc, etc and make wild claims, submit outlandish ideas that simply don't work with how the game is designed or just generally spew nonsense.

[gersy]

I made that video before live shut down. I cringe watching it now, asking myself, wth was I doing, why am I not using burn armor, etc. lol. Hysterical it would be used in a post however many years later.

Also, Gersy knows WH maybe better than anyone and I would heed his advice.

those old videos are always funny to watch years later. i've a lot of old WoW pvp videos i'm in from years ago and rewatch and think "wow i didn't know much back then, compared to now". but to be fair at that time you were owning everyone for sure and 100rr was a big accomplishment.

i appreciate the kind words as well. there are a few players who i know and respect that are definitely stronger than me with WH depending on the type content! i'm out of practice now and have always been mediocre at soloing for example

[Faction69]

Played more now. I don't like how you have to choose between either Shroud of Magnus or Repel Blasphemy for BAL now, it feels like you have to spec to fight either casters or melee. I would've preferred they just scrapped the vanish component of Sanctified Oil entirely and made it a speed boost only honestly, rather than moving the other two around and tacking it on to Seal of Destruction. Right now it's in an awkward place because a 3 second in combat stealth with nothing else just... Isn't that great of an ability really. I know it used to be the focus of complaints from non WE/WH players, but the vanish beforehand was usually more of a bonus than the main part of the ability.

WH already had to skip incoming heal debuff for its best single target spec, which was enough of a sacrifice. Now you still don't have the heal debuff, AND you have to choose between losing either Repel Blasphemy or magic immunity.

For that matter IDK what Seal of Destruction even is now? The armorpen is okay but it's hard to use it for the armorpen when it has a much more important component tied to it, that goes away when you use another ability. It doesn't really make much sense to have those two components on the same ability. I think decoupling sprint from vanish was an ok idea but there must be better ways to do it than this.

On the bright side we are way better in groups.

[Sinisterror]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gdhaTzpg74 Yes it was meant to be a burst class and was for like 15 yrs. Would you rather we go back to gameplay of that video of Dps Doing BIG dps. Or Current Passive Regen of the game? : D

to some extent, you can still do similar what is seen in the video providing that you meet a few parameters such as picking your fights well (killing lowbies, people much less geared than you, people not specced deftard, some class like sorc with no way to realistically fight back and is squishy, etc).

not to detract from the video, which i'm sure was a fantastic display in 2013, but this video is showing someone who's 100rr in warpforged gear which was EXTREMELY overpowered and miles ahead of all the other gear in the game. a set of gear which caused many players to quit due to the absurd power creep. and fighting mostly a lot of people who are either clueless, severely undergeared comparatively to the pov character, not even level 40 in some cases or both at once. of course he's going to be critting for big and killing noobs in this video fighting low geared light armor dps without guard, players below level 40, ranged squig who doesn't even react to being hit, some zealot/shaman who doesn't heal himself or detaunt, backpedalling choppas who look like my 5 year old cousin playing for first time, etc when he is 100rr WH. in 2025 vs some competent player with competent build they won't let this happen to them, only some unsuspecting noob who you will gank. it's not really indicative of "the class was designed for burst, and doesn't do good burst in RoR".

you always advocate for returning old, broken things to the game in every forum thread and i can't help but wonder why? RoR isn't meant to be like WAR, in fact a lot of the design is the very opposite and trying to prevent the game from becoming a 1 shot simulator with insane power creep like WAR did at the end which caused a lot of players to dislike the game. even now, with sov gear and LV gear there is some insane power creep happening again and most agree the best times of RoR was conq or vanq era before all the cringe overpowered gear was added and started to break the game. adding more broken items or more ways to deal stupid amounts of damage with low counterplay wouldn't fix the game. instead they should just remove or heavily rebalance regen and deftard items (like grimshimmer, fleshrender, offspec SC weps, etc) entirely and force people to play damage builds instead of relying on parrying and regening to win the fight for them by attrition because they lack any semblance of mechanical skill.

Point of linking the video was only to show the insane dmg. RoR obviously was meant to be WAR with good changes, like no rr 100 and no bugged lotd talismans. What RoR is Nowadays is something else and this is completely fine. And yes RoR PvP was best when Vanquisher/Oppressor/Overlord/Imperator was BiS gear. Before that RoR PvP was best when 36/40 was max lvl, so 3 tactics only.

I want the old good gear back that existed in Aor, like rr38 inf wpns having higher crit + Boost V procs etc. I want the original T4 epic wpn quest procs back, so you can be effective at rank 36. I want Red-eye to be 35lvl set and not included in needing Sentinel gear. Conq/Domi should also be lvl35 rr 30 sets and Vanq/Opp should be the rr40-45 sets.

Also i want the faster gameplay(GCD) back as that change broke everything and still there is problems caused by this. Like having 2 instant skills less in 10seconds and this is why regen outdoes dps specs in 1vx. Well its one of the big reasons. I dont want to OVERPOWER smaller force and i want the feeling of the old campaign where we didnt need to run supplies, but we defended Bo's and Duo/Trio could actually make a difference in campaign by ninjaing objective and being alive long enough so enemy cannot do 10s flag capture without dot dmg interrupting them even when you are dead and get the lock.

The "older" things i want back are in my opinion what made this game work for Elites/Casual/Solo/duo/trio etc it was for everyone and no one was punished because they didnt play the game in a way someone else wanted them to play. I dont think anything about this is proven broken but i have no problem admitting if/when im proven wrong=)

[salazarn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gdhaTzpg74 Yes it was meant to be a burst class and was for like 15 yrs. Would you rather we go back to gameplay of that video of Dps Doing BIG dps. Or Current Passive Regen of the game? : D



The "older" things i want back are in my opinion what made this game work for Elites/Casual/Solo/duo/trio etc it was for everyone and no one was punished because they didnt play the game in a way someone else wanted them to play. I dont think anything about this is proven broken but i have no problem admitting if/when im proven wrong=)

Trew

[Sever1n]

Played more now. I don't like how you have to choose between either Shroud of Magnus or Repel Blasphemy for BAL now, it feels like you have to spec to fight either casters or melee. I would've preferred they just scrapped the vanish component of Sanctified Oil entirely and made it a speed boost only honestly, rather than moving the other two around and tacking it on to Seal of Destruction. Right now it's in an awkward place because a 3 second in combat stealth with nothing else just... Isn't that great of an ability really. I know it used to be the focus of complaints from non WE/WH players, but the vanish beforehand was usually more of a bonus than the main part of the ability.

WH already had to skip incoming heal debuff for its best single target spec, which was enough of a sacrifice. Now you still don't have the heal debuff, AND you have to choose between losing either Repel Blasphemy or magic immunity.

For that matter IDK what Seal of Destruction even is now? The armorpen is okay but it's hard to use it for the armorpen when it has a much more important component tied to it, that goes away when you use another ability. It doesn't really make much sense to have those two components on the same ability. I think decoupling sprint from vanish was an ok idea but there must be better ways to do it than this.

On the bright side we are way better in groups.

You are correct, solutions are sloppy and ruined balanse between builds of wh. We had def tree if you are not protected, and glass tree when u have guard. Now its just terible mix that improve BAl adiction + cuting other builds, and gives not needed instruments. Wasting seal or feints for chase when you need both for burst just bad. We just needed normal snare like WE have. WH get nothing in terms of much needed and asked utility in this patch, only hard decisions. I used to play glass a lot but now i cant afford bal, heal debuff and seal, wich gived me a ton if much needed arp for burst. If drop bal it means you need to take exit wound, and for all that time i played wh i still dunno why i would need that str and ws debuff when my primary focus to hunt heals and squishies, only toughness debuff part is good but it nothing compared to stupid raw power of BAL. I was hoping that wh finally get normal snare they gave it to WE but nor for us, was hoping for rework of Exit wound - they reworked sacrifical only, was hoping of rework of blessed blade - they even ruined tpb option forsing you to reach 5points of finishers now, so no more 100% uptime build for blessed, 2 skill then 3 without pen then you forsed to go tbp cos its only finisher that utilise blessed blade. And now we are total slaves of 3rd tree cos torment is only st spaming skill you have becouse dmg of razor was nerfed i to aoe build.

Feedback was given, feedback was ignored. I would rather have WE than WH after this patch, they dont have to struggle with all that annoying utility gaps. And worst part of all they even buffed accursed regen WE instead of deleting that abomination. That was not what i expected for dps rework and now im just worry about other classes that in list, if devs will think this was a successful one.

[siglade]

Feedback was given, feedback was ignored. I would rather have WE than WH after this patch, they dont have to struggle with all that annoying utility gaps. And worst part of all they even buffed accursed regen WE instead of deleting that abomination. That was not what i expected for dps rework and now im just worry about other classes that in list, if devs will think this was a successful one.

Play WE then, problem solved.

[Sever1n]

Play WE then, problem solved.

Its runing away from problem, not solving it.

[gersy]

Feedback was given, feedback was ignored. I would rather have WE than WH after this patch, they dont have to struggle with all that annoying utility gaps. And worst part of all they even buffed accursed regen WE instead of deleting that abomination. That was not what i expected for dps rework and now im just worry about other classes that in list, if devs will think this was a successful one.

Play WE then, problem solved.

cool hat + holy theme > being a hooker

[Krima]

Played more now. I don't like how you have to choose between either Shroud of Magnus or Repel Blasphemy for BAL now, it feels like you have to spec to fight either casters or melee. I would've preferred they just scrapped the vanish component of Sanctified Oil entirely and made it a speed boost only honestly, rather than moving the other two around and tacking it on to Seal of Destruction. Right now it's in an awkward place because a 3 second in combat stealth with nothing else just... Isn't that great of an ability really. I know it used to be the focus of complaints from non WE/WH players, but the vanish beforehand was usually more of a bonus than the main part of the ability.

WH already had to skip incoming heal debuff for its best single target spec, which was enough of a sacrifice. Now you still don't have the heal debuff, AND you have to choose between losing either Repel Blasphemy or magic immunity.

For that matter IDK what Seal of Destruction even is now? The armorpen is okay but it's hard to use it for the armorpen when it has a much more important component tied to it, that goes away when you use another ability. It doesn't really make much sense to have those two components on the same ability. I think decoupling sprint from vanish was an ok idea but there must be better ways to do it than this.

On the bright side we are way better in groups.

You are correct, solutions are sloppy and ruined balanse between builds of wh. We had def tree if you are not protected, and glass tree when u have guard. Now its just terible mix that improve BAl adiction + cuting other builds, and gives not needed instruments. Wasting seal or feints for chase when you need both for burst just bad. We just needed normal snare like WE have. WH get nothing in terms of much needed and asked utility in this patch, only hard decisions. I used to play glass a lot but now i cant afford bal, heal debuff and seal, wich gived me a ton if much needed arp for burst. If drop bal it means you need to take exit wound, and for all that time i played wh i still dunno why i would need that str and ws debuff when my primary focus to hunt heals and squishies, only toughness debuff part is good but it nothing compared to stupid raw power of BAL. I was hoping that wh finally get normal snare they gave it to WE but nor for us, was hoping for rework of Exit wound - they reworked sacrifical only, was hoping of rework of blessed blade - they even ruined tpb option forsing you to reach 5points of finishers now, so no more 100% uptime build for blessed, 2 skill then 3 without pen then you forsed to go tbp cos its only finisher that utilise blessed blade. And now we are total slaves of 3rd tree cos torment is only st spaming skill you have becouse dmg of razor was nerfed i to aoe build.

Feedback was given, feedback was ignored. I would rather have WE than WH after this patch, they dont have to struggle with all that annoying utility gaps. And worst part of all they even buffed accursed regen WE instead of deleting that abomination. That was not what i expected for dps rework and now im just worry about other classes that in list, if devs will think this was a successful one.

WE has the same issues now as Carnage/AoE, honestly.

The tree is in a terrible state. All WEs are forced back into Agonizing Wounds + SS for single-target, and there’s basically no real build variety.

At this point, I don’t even see a big difference from WH anymore, WH can still burst extremely fast with the new crit tactic for BAL and ABSO. Sure, they don’t have a snare, but overall the gameplay gap isn’t that big.

Right now WE is basically:

AW + SS

dump everything into STR

nothing else performs

Turning what used to be a solid, reliable tree for both WE and WH into a meme AoE tree is not good design.