Warband-ready Destro Class Guide: Gear, Masteries, Renown Points, Talismans and Pots (by Entropy and Chaos)

[M0rw47h]

I was very surprised, that using Savagery was completly ignored in Monstro guide. I mean, cmon, you got 2-3* AoE abilities that can proc extra dot and that can add extra layer of pressure before burst.

*Wave of Mutilation, Wave of Terror and potential Mouth of Tzeentch if you want to go with agressive interrupt.

[leftayparxoun]

I was very surprised, that using Savagery was completly ignored in Monstro guide. I mean, cmon, you got 2-3* AoE abilities that can proc extra dot and that can add extra layer of pressure before burst.

*Wave of Mutilation, Wave of Terror and potential Mouth of Tzeentch if you want to go with agressive interrupt.

Hey, thanks for the comment.

The reason behind this choice is that Mara post the mdps patch effectively needs to slot Widespread Demolition so as to keep his AOE pressure up (especially while Wrecking Ball is on cd). At least in my opinion.
Widespread Demolition also partially solves Mara's glaring issue as a dps which has been Absorb Shields negating the brunt of his damage. Finally, the extended Demolition range allows for a better uptime of Gift of Monstrosity which in turn helps Mara with his own survivability and lessens the pressure off of the warband's healers.

There are cases where using Flanking may be preferable (especially for experienced players who have honed their positioning skills), however Widespread Demolition is the 4th tactic I'd recommend for the average player.

Now, as to how that tactic rules out Savagery swaps. First let's compare the damage procs.

The Gift of Savagery dot has a 25% to be applied/refreshed per hit and will deal 81 base damage + 0.45 × DB per second for 5 seconds.

The Widespread Demolition proc has a 100% to be applied/refreshed per hit and will deal 66 base damage + 0.50 × DB per second for 3 seconds.

A representative DB is imo 170 and with Gift of Savagery being base ability and Widespread Demo being in a Mastery tree with 13 points in it, we get these damage values:

• Gift of Savagery: 157 dmg/s

• Widespread Demolition: 148 dmg/s

As we can see here, Gift of Savagery comes out slightly on top, however, it is way more unreliable in its proc rate as you can see further above. The AA speed debuff it applies to whoever's hit is also negligible for warband play.

So the question becomes "Why choose between one and the other? Can't you use both?"

And the answer is "Unfortunately, no."

Since last year, Mara stances have 5 seconds cooldown. This means that, despite being off-GCD, you cannot go back to your previous Stance until that cooldown has expired.

What this in turn means is that, due to Demolition being usable only in Monstrocity stance, you will have to spend at least 5 seconds (3-4 GCDs) on other stances.
As you correctly noted, you may use Wave of Mutilation, Wave of Terror and potentially even Mouth of Tzeentch while in Savagery stance, however, even in that case, you would "lose" Widespread Demolition dot uptime on your targets for at least 2 GCDs!

For example:
t = 0 Demolition (Widespread Demo dot starts)
t = 1.5 Gift of Savagery + Wave of Mutilation (Monstro cd starts)
t = 3 Wave of Terror (Widespread Demo dot ends)
t = 4.5 Mouth of Tzeentch
Have to wait 0.5 s extra here to wait for Monstro cooldown to end.
t = 6.5 Gift of Monstrosity + Demolition
(Widespread Demo dot starts again)

So in an ideal rotation, what did you achieve?
You "lose" 3.5 seconds/ticks of Widespread Demo dot, to have to 3 chances of 25% to apply the Gift of Savagery dot to them AND you waste 0.5 seconds waiting for the GCD.

If the Gift of Savagery proc was guarranteed to proc, then such a trade would be very much acceptable. However, with only 25%, chances are you will be dealing less damage on average compared to just staying in Monstro and you'll be using your AOE interrupt offensively so as to not be forced to use a ST ability. Moreover, you are giving up on the Monstrosity selfbuff during that period which means you become SIGNIFICANTLY more squishy.

The one exception would be to swap to Brutality after the first ability used in Savagery and use Guillotine to pick-off a kill and go back to Monstrocity on the next GCD. But this is way too convoluted and unreliable to recommend, especially in equal fights.



T.L.D.R: I do not think there is a good reason to swap to Savagery for AOE damage as long as you are using the Widespread Demolition tactic (which in my opinion currently deserves the 4th tactic slot).

[M0rw47h]

There are couple reasons to include Savagery into "rotation":

• You open while being in Savagery (Waves)*;
• You got disconnected from targets for w/e reason and you've to waste time traveling anyway;
• You want to build greater damage spike - Savagery proc lasts 5 second, so you can build Wave+Savagery+Widespread ticking same time as you channel Wrecking Ball*.

You may ask why bother with such low damage addition in short window (5s), it may in the end doesn't matter after all. Well, in the end it may matter alot if it's coordinated spike and you want maximize damage output from every WB member as you burst poor souls.

About CD - can't you mitigate it with Blackguard in party? Was working pretty well with Chop Fasta! in the past

*Wave last 21s, Savagery 5s, Widespead 3s.

[leftayparxoun]

There are couple reasons to include Savagery into "rotation":

• You open while being in Savagery (Waves)*;
• You got disconnected from targets for w/e reason and you've to waste time traveling anyway;
• You want to build greater damage spike - Savagery proc lasts 5 second, so you can build Wave+Savagery+Widespread ticking same time as you channel Wrecking Ball*.

You may ask why bother with such low damage addition in short window (5s), it may in the end doesn't matter after all. Well, in the end it may matter alot if it's coordinated spike and you want maximize damage output from every WB member as you burst poor souls.

About CD - can't you mitigate it with Blackguard in party? Was working pretty well with Chop Fasta! in the past

*Wave last 21s, Savagery 5s, Widespead 3s.

Thanks for the followup.

It is true that it might matter a lot for the burst, but you'd have to predict the burst window quite precisely. If the wb leader calls for kd and channels and you are 3 seconds away from accessing Monstro again then you and potentially also your warband (if there are no other Maras) is now in trouble.

Trouble for yourself, since you as a dps will be squishier and locked out of your channel and damage spike in general.
Trouble for yourwarband, because if there is no other Mara with AOE kd available (not on cd) then suddenly the whole damage drop of the warband is way more likely to go to waste. Which also spells trouble for yourself again (as a player) since the warband leader is quite likely to start asking questions

Also in the topic of layering Damage for Optimal Burst, with Savagery proc lasting 5 seconds (after the latest refresh) we see that unless you apply/refresh it on a person on the last GCD before you swap to monstro, then it will effectively stop before you can even channel.

i.e.
t = 0 Savagery proc start
t = 1.5 Swap to Monstro + Demolition + Widespread Demolition dot start
t = 3 Wrecking Ball

As you can see here, if the Savagery proc started 1 GCD earlier then it would barely overlap with your channel. Plus, if it's your turn/duty to use KD before channel then even if you apply/refresh the Sav dot on the last GCD in Sav stance, then you are barely gonna layer anything with your drop.

Effectively you only layer extra damage for your dmg drop on 25% of the people hit by your last AOE in Savagery (and only if you are not forced to KD).

You can, of course, KD instead of using Demo but that again defeats the whole purpose.


As for Blackguard providing FTWK for you, that for sure can enable you to weave in Savagery for your rotation. However, due to both Choppa and WE now needing FTWK for optimal rotations, alongside MSH and Bomb Sorc that already needed it urgently, combined also with the abysmally low number of SnB, rr60+ (to even spec FTWK), Blackguards out in the lakes, it makes it HIGHLY unlikely that a Mara will be placed (or rather, should be placed) with a FTWK Bg.
This is the reason why I didn't even go into FTWK specifics in the Mara rotations. If you somehow do end up with a FTWK in the party then it would make sense though.

[M0rw47h]

There are always many IFs, dancing into Savagery isn't always the best choice. Sometimes it will be a good idea, sometimes it won't. Imho still worth mentioning, as Marauder in general isn't camp one stance to unlock full potential class.

[leftayparxoun]

There are always many IFs, dancing into Savagery isn't always the best choice. Sometimes it will be a good idea, sometimes it won't. Imho still worth mentioning, as Marauder in general isn't camp one stance to unlock full potential class.

I agree, but sometimes "less is more" (especially for players who are not comfortable with their class or their positioning yet).

Will consider adding something about Savagery swaps once I'm back from vacation. Thank you for the discussion!

[reyaloran]

I would argue against the sav swap on engage. While it will pad your damage for a short duration your choppas and sorcs need at least 5 seconds to setup (yellow rage, dahr wind) so you wont be adding much to the burst. In theory a perfect time for the first channel call is exactly 5 seconds into the fight since that's the earliest the rest of the wb will be ready. With that in mind all that starting in sav does for you is give a chance to pad your numbers while reducing your survivability and makes you more likely to miss the kd call from being in the wrong stance.

[M0rw47h]

I would argue against the sav swap on engage. While it will pad your damage for a short duration your choppas and sorcs need at least 5 seconds to setup (yellow rage, dahr wind) so you wont be adding much to the burst. In theory a perfect time for the first channel call is exactly 5 seconds into the fight since that's the earliest the rest of the wb will be ready. With that in mind all that starting in sav does for you is give a chance to pad your numbers while reducing your survivability and makes you more likely to miss the kd call from being in the wrong stance.

As I said before, there are many IFs.
Sometimes you're in combat for much longer without being actualy engaged in melee before push (e.g. building morales while puliing, kiting etc).

[amputationsaw]

i love this guide. and bc of that i look pretty into it. is there a way to split the .doc into classes? so i dont have to navigate always through all the classes and sections?

Thanks for the kind words.
If I may ask, are you using the guide on mobile? There is a Navigation section with hyperlinks to all builds for each class. You can find it after the About This Guide section at the top, or by clicking the link in the first paragraph of About This Guide. On pc it's a bit easier to get there since you can just click the Navigation header (on the left side of the screen).

Or do you perhaps mean that the Navigation tab is a bit limited/should be expanded?

i am on PC and i use the navi on the left and scroll down but thats kinda awkward because class names are not highlighted and it can take its time to find the class you looking for. would be nice to get a directory at the top were you just have to click on the classname which jumps right to its section

[leftayparxoun]

i am on PC and i use the navi on the left and scroll down but thats kinda awkward because class names are not highlighted and it can take its time to find the class you looking for. would be nice to get a directory at the top were you just have to click on the classname which jumps right to its section

Yeah, that already exists in the form of the "Navigation" section. As I wrote above, you can find it right after "About This Guide" or by clicking on it on the navi on the left (should be the 4th header or so).