[Witch Elf] deff spec tactics

[sven85z]

For deff witch elf what four tactics are they running with?
Got killed by one and it felt super owerpowered compare to other specs for solo at least.

[nat3s]

It does well, but a def WL in the +armour sov destroys a def WE easily.

Kiss of Doom, Sacrifices Rewarded, Frenzied Mayhem and Brute Force personally. Swift Blades can be good in parry setup. 50% AA speed also good.

For renown TB and Reflexes maxed are pretty much mandatory. Ultimately you want to get crit a bit to proc tactic shield so TB + the -3% crit reduction pocket give you a solid 43% crit dmg reduction.

Setup can vary heavily, I like 54.5% parry (57% with Vict buff up), 2.9k armour, 260 regen and 913 strength. Feels like it covers all the bases. You can get it to 3k armour if you're willing to lose a little more strength.

[franqo]

Frenzied mayhem for witchbrew?

[nat3s]

yes

[Farrul]

It does well, but a def WL in the +armour sov destroys a def WE easily.

The ''def WL''' i've seen in the game duel a Def WE has easily been deafeated by the WE, however that was before patches and ive not played in some time.

However to me personally the def sov set is inferior to the normal one, 700+ armor means nothing (WE does corporeal) and you get a little extra toughness which again does almost nothing unless you stack it to 700-800.

[nat3s]

It does well, but a def WL in the +armour sov destroys a def WE easily.

The ''def WL''' i've seen in the game duel a Def WE has easily been deafeated by the WE, however that was before patches and ive not played in some time.

However to me personally the def sov set is inferior to the normal one, 700+ armor means nothing (WE does corporeal) and you get a little extra toughness which again does almost nothing unless you stack it to 700-800.

Here is the recent duel session I'm aware of: https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com/kill/59737223 (scroll down to Player Feud section).

Worth noting that people are so attracted to +crit from offensive sov that it completely clouds their judgement. Totally understand why you would think WL def sov isn't good (you are wrong though). Crit as a stat is less impactful than str/int (pre cap) and mag power/melee power (post cap). But people see "yummy big crit %" and are drawn to it like flies to a lamp.

Essentially it's why the def meta evolved as those that understand stat weightings better, realised this where the masses are just sucked into gearing as a glass cannon.

Take WoW, pvp values Versatility (-dmg) and in the past Resilience (-crit) for a reason. People just never clued onto it in the same way in Warhammer Online.

But keep going glass cannon, its totally viable, just not 1v1 duel viable, which is fine as that's such a niche part of the game anyway!!

[Farrul]

Worth noting that people are so attracted to +crit from offensive sov that it completely clouds their judgement. Totally understand why you would think WL def sov isn't good (you are wrong though). Crit as a stat is less impactful than str/int (pre cap) and mag power/melee power (post cap). But people see "yummy big crit %" and are drawn to it like flies to a lamp.

I have never typed that '' Totally understand why you would think WL def sov isn't good ''. Those are your words,

I've questioned the logic behind using the ''def WL'' set as an argument for killing Def WE, when Def WE ignores the armor bonus on 90% of her attacks and the toughness bonus is not going to make a practical difference unless you stack it( let's be humble +600-700).

WL will likely do much better playing ''def wl'' using the normal SoV set, why? Because the bonuses are simply better. It's not only the crit, it has 10% more armor penetration( 6 % set , 3% helm, WS difference).

Fyi, on my WL i don't use Def set ( when i was active a year back) but i kill all def WE anyways on full glass spec( regen pot). I could use regen and def wound proc weapon if i wanted some extra sustain.

So what will the extra armor be good for? SH have 80% armor pen, Chosen/Magus/WE/Shaman ignores it(strongest 1vs1 destro classes). I was not aware WL could stack toughness to 700- 800 where it actually starts becoming good and makes a difference.

P.S. i always forget Zealot which now apparently is a thing, also ignores it( sorry Stink)

[nat3s]

No, its simply not true, you favour offensive stats, as I say that vast majority do, it feels right and the nice offensive stat numbers are so alluring, but in solo roaming and duel centric play, its the wrong way to do it. That is essentially why the named solo roamers can do their thing, its mostly knowledge rather than skill.

The def WL set gets you 88 toughness, more parry and more armour. Use it with other carefully picked set pieces and you arrive at:

55.1% parry chance
4200 armour
10,020 hp
1033 str
482 weapon skill
405 toughness
Sub 0% chance to be crit

Not bad for swapping out crit chance... Yes agreed, there are 700+ tough setups too.

That's why a WL can win 1v3+ in def setup, but will struggle in a 1v2 in glass cannon.

You may not understand how to reach the above stats, drop me a DM and I'll show you the RoRPlanner gear and renown setup.

Yes yes regen, absorb and heal pot is obvious and mandatory for solo play and you can use all 3 in a fight, pointing out the obvious there dude

Strongest solo class right now is armour/tough RP and def WL imo, WE id put 3rd. Zealot, magus, sham, WE are all good. I have mag (def), WE (def), shaman (glass cannon) at 80+. My zeal, WL and RP are a WIP. My other 80s I don't play much anymore besides my WH (glass cannon, but some ideas on a return of the DG regen def build there). Exclusively play solo roaming, I never zerg.

[Farrul]

Listen i'm not arguing in general, i know about ''def'' meta and i am also an experienced 1vs1 player for the vast playtime on this server. I have also ''def'' and other BIS classes after playing for many years(Yes i know how to min/max and make the strongest characters in this game ).

However you failed to address my argument, like i said those extra defensive stats might make you believe the performance will be better, but in reality you'll probably do better if you used the other set since offers more advantages ( it can still be def where it matters, regen, parry, wounds).

If you take a look at the ''stats'' of that Def WE(soloater) when she attacks the lion and killd him, you'll see:

1) Wichbrew 32%( 100% corporeal damage).
2)Enfeebling Strike 17.9%( 100% corporeal damage)
3) Envenomed Blade 15,5%( 100% corporeal damage)
4) Wrackings pains 9.1%( 100% corporeal damage)
5) Agonizing wound 7,4% (100% ignores armor)
6) Kiss of Agony 5,6 % ( 100% corporeal damage)
7) Auto attack 4,5% (physical)

The rest are small 1% percent contributor to dps. So it means your ''Def Sov set'' Armor bonus is effective against the AA contribution and few 1% attacks. The vast majority of the damage the WE does, is corporeal (85%) and it completely ignores the Armor set Bonus of the def set.

Again, most destro top dueling classes are all magic based, Armor Sov set bonus is wasteful stat against them. The offensive SoV 6% crit and 10% armor pen of the normal SoV set however is helping the WL kill those classes faster and win the duel. It has more impact.

Ok, so on to toughness. you claim 405 toughness in this setup. I am sorry but it will hardly make a difference here. You need to go up in the 700 toughness realm for this stat to start becoming effective, at the very least 600. It is just 'meme'' at 400.

Realistically you'll have 300 or less toughness against destro classes 1vs1. Def WE for example will hit you with wracking pains reducing 405 toughness to 265.

Then finally parry. You claim 55.1% parry chance. But the Def SoV set only has 2% more bonus than the other SoV set. So you can still have 53 % parry with the +6 crit chance and 10% extra armor penetration, clearly this is better.

I think the real problem here is that you watch the character stat windom and thinks this looks good, but have you actually experimented enough to tell the real difference?

As for me i never needed any def on my WL( i am perfectly capable of building one). I had so much offence and use clever potion and kite that i put any def char into submission and defensive retreat, except for Chosen who stacked +600 regen, but why duel this deftard?