WE and WHs changes made the game booring any fixes?

[georgehabadasher]

On live

There was a lot things that was different on live, right? If you want to change one class back to his live version - you must change all others too, why not?

Pretty much every class except for WL/rSH and WE/WH have been massively nerfed from their live versions.

[Shogun4138]

This has completely devolved into nonsense speech. It's just people throwing around a combination of every tool WE has and pretend like she can use them all in the same time.

Unless u are a lowbie or complete glass canon, u are not dying under knockdown. That 2s KD suggestion is about as ridiculous as your claims.

The wounds debuff is about as useless in solo as a chocolate teapot.

Putting the defensive spec of the class and the offensive one in one bracket and at the same time demanding nerfs for both is out of touch.

WE has to choose whether she brings hd or pierce armor with SS. With hd your burst is less, without hd you cannot kill healers.

The only true statement said here was the fact that WE and WH stack together because on their own they suck.

I once again ask people to play the class before they make a crying forums post.

This is the actual reality if you play the class.

[Fenris78]

Just common sense at this point, WE middle tree, i mean stuff like the Wound debuff( in that tree lol). Middle WE tree is overtuned on steriods. For example it had a -120 WS/Toughness debuff(buffed with a previous patch to 150) and now it added another -150 wound debuff. 3 x 150 on basic abilities .

Thats this specific choices making the class overperforming ; 2 base skills with 3x150 debuff, conveniently placed into the most powerful finisher's tree.
Adding to that significant number of skills doing Corp damage (Wracking pain is a 21 seconds (!) DoT with strong debuff), allowing WE to completely ignore Armor AND weapon skill usage, letting them invest into defensive options.

The still aberrant core tactic with free 600 absorb on top of the cake and you have a solo monster.

WE also doesnt need triumph proc because it doesnt stack with their skills debuffs, allowing to go even further into builds variety/str bonuses (example 5/2/2 gearing for max STR bonuses, freeing a tactic slot because no need for Brute Force anymore).


Compared to WH which has to :
- Heavily invest into Weapon Skill / Left mastery tree to deal significant damage output against any midly armoured target, because 90% of skills, including BaL still deal Physical damage
- Mandatory slot Flowing Accusations because how mechanic works (WE doesnt care at all about how much using finishers, and can just use them at 4-5 mechanic points, since every attack could proc add damage)
- Mandatory slot Brute force because everything is based on STR, and only got one main stat increasing tactic
- Go full glass cannon because doesnt have the luxury to deal 33% of damage output as magical damage.
- Use BaL because it's the only viable build atm. Exit Wounds is far too weak (same damage as Absolution, while stat debuff is nice, again the WE can debuff 150 wounds, 150 WS AND 150 Toughness with TWO CORE SKILLS ALONE...

What I could suggest for WE :
- Tone down or remove stats debuffs on WE core skills
- Tone down WE Absorb tactic
- Buff Sacrificial Stab to be better damage and/or debuffing skill, while toning down damage of Witchbrew since it's corporeal
- Basically make right and left trees more appealing instead of making Witchbrew the obvious best choice

What I could suggest for WH :
- Make one core skill with a WS increase, like the WE one (why not Seeker's Blade ?)
- Buff Exit Wound damage to make it more appealing compared to BaL
- Make Pistol AA proc Blessed Bullets (because it's a pistol attack), it's a 40% proc chance, and will make AA tactic more interesting also
- If Pistol AA proccing bullets, Slightly tone down Bullets damage to keep the same dmg output as WE kisses
- Buff a bit Blessed Ammunition tactic, because one bullet proc on a 10s cd skill is ultra weak



Finally, about Stealth, I find often to be seen with 320 or so Initiative, the more efficient way to stay hidden is to be front of enemy at all time and not moving. Otherwise going very close to enemy while moving is nearly garanteed to be spotted and caught.

With the recent (unnecessary) nerf to Vanish skills, I wonder what's their purpose anymore saving rebuilding mechanic points mid-fight and debuffing target once more.
3 seconds of Stealth is never enough to buy some distance with any mdps, let alone hiding into a bush... Besides, tab-targeting never allow you to hide anyway, so what's the point using it for escaping anymore ?

Make Vanish 5 seconds duration, or a 20% speed increase, at very least it could make a semi-useful gap-closer or allow some little escape before attempting to re-stealth, since now anything AoE will 100% interrupt you no matter what...

[CeeJay89]

Pounce shouldn't be on WE. A stealth class has no business having a pounce, let alone one with a snare attached. If they absolutely insist on giving them one, make it a morale 2 like SM's.

[Shogun4138]

This has completely devolved into nonsense speech. It's just people throwing around a combination of every tool WE has and pretend like she can use them all in the same time.

Unless u are a lowbie or complete glass canon, u are not dying under knockdown. That 2s KD suggestion is about as ridiculous as your claims.

The wounds debuff is about as useless in solo as a chocolate teapot.

Putting the defensive spec of the class and the offensive one in one bracket and at the same time demanding nerfs for both is out of touch.

WE has to choose whether she brings hd or pierce armor with SS. With hd your burst is less, without hd you cannot kill healers.

The only true statement said here was the fact that WE and WH stack together because on their own they suck.

I once again ask people to play the class before they make a crying forums post.

This is the point.

[DirkDaring]

This guy MDPV, almost always ran solo, it was rare to ever see him grouped up, I think he finally retired, but still was a good player, on most of the classes he played.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lex9b9cU3ns&t=49s

[culland]

This is the actual reality if you play the class.

It is also an actual reality that if you roam around as unavoidable gank squads that can engage and disengage at their choosing, people are going to get annoyed and create long threads asking for changes.

[nat3s]

Just common sense at this point, WE middle tree, i mean stuff like the Wound debuff( in that tree lol). Middle WE tree is overtuned on steriods. For example it had a -120 WS/Toughness debuff(buffed with a previous patch to 150) and now it added another -150 wound debuff. 3 x 150 on basic abilities .

Thats this specific choices making the class overperforming ; 2 base skills with 3x150 debuff, conveniently placed into the most powerful finisher's tree.
Adding to that significant number of skills doing Corp damage (Wracking pain is a 21 seconds (!) DoT with strong debuff), allowing WE to completely ignore Armor AND weapon skill usage, letting them invest into defensive options.

The still aberrant core tactic with free 600 absorb on top of the cake and you have a solo monster.

WE also doesnt need triumph proc because it doesnt stack with their skills debuffs, allowing to go even further into builds variety/str bonuses (example 5/2/2 gearing for max STR bonuses, freeing a tactic slot because no need for Brute Force anymore).


Compared to WH which has to :
- Heavily invest into Weapon Skill / Left mastery tree to deal significant damage output against any midly armoured target, because 90% of skills, including BaL still deal Physical damage
- Mandatory slot Flowing Accusations because how mechanic works (WE doesnt care at all about how much using finishers, and can just use them at 4-5 mechanic points, since every attack could proc add damage)
- Mandatory slot Brute force because everything is based on STR, and only got one main stat increasing tactic
- Go full glass cannon because doesnt have the luxury to deal 33% of damage output as magical damage.
- Use BaL because it's the only viable build atm. Exit Wounds is far too weak (same damage as Absolution, while stat debuff is nice, again the WE can debuff 150 wounds, 150 WS AND 150 Toughness with TWO CORE SKILLS ALONE...

What I could suggest for WE :
- Tone down or remove stats debuffs on WE core skills
- Tone down WE Absorb tactic
- Buff Sacrificial Stab to be better damage and/or debuffing skill, while toning down damage of Witchbrew since it's corporeal
- Basically make right and left trees more appealing instead of making Witchbrew the obvious best choice

What I could suggest for WH :
- Make one core skill with a WS increase, like the WE one (why not Seeker's Blade ?)
- Buff Exit Wound damage to make it more appealing compared to BaL
- Make Pistol AA proc Blessed Bullets (because it's a pistol attack), it's a 40% proc chance, and will make AA tactic more interesting also
- If Pistol AA proccing bullets, Slightly tone down Bullets damage to keep the same dmg output as WE kisses
- Buff a bit Blessed Ammunition tactic, because one bullet proc on a 10s cd skill is ultra weak



Finally, about Stealth, I find often to be seen with 320 or so Initiative, the more efficient way to stay hidden is to be front of enemy at all time and not moving. Otherwise going very close to enemy while moving is nearly garanteed to be spotted and caught.

With the recent (unnecessary) nerf to Vanish skills, I wonder what's their purpose anymore saving rebuilding mechanic points mid-fight and debuffing target once more.
3 seconds of Stealth is never enough to buy some distance with any mdps, let alone hiding into a bush... Besides, tab-targeting never allow you to hide anyway, so what's the point using it for escaping anymore ?

Make Vanish 5 seconds duration, or a 20% speed increase, at very least it could make a semi-useful gap-closer or allow some little escape before attempting to re-stealth, since now anything AoE will 100% interrupt you no matter what...

And yet def WL and dps RP destroys a def WE, not even close.

As I noted above, WL can reach 50% parry, 4k armour, decent regen, 10k hp and decent weapon skill. Absolute raging monster in def setup. Can take 2-3 def WEs. An RP using healing gear can toggle from 1k WP and 30%+ heal crit to 1k int with 30%+ magic crit, the absolute best turtle class and the #1 solo roamer right now, has both tough and armour tactic options although doesn't need to go def to be the king. AM with armour talis also a monster, can cleanse sham dots but sham cannot cleanse AM dots.

Game isn't balance around 1v1, if it were, WL, RP and AM would be first up for changes.

WH has a 75% parry spec, also beats def WE, you just don't know about it. Check out Dicii in Killboard Armoury.

The builds are there if you have game knowledge. IF you want glass cannon typical 5 sov 4 tri setups, that 90% of people blindly use, to stomp def specs then you're effectively breaking the game and massively reducing the power of playing around with builds and theorycrafting and making everything homogenised. Nerf def WE you'll see a ton of def WLs, RPs etc spring up. Some of us play purely for solo play hunting 1v1 duels.

I profoundly hope the devs know enough to not listen to you.

[Shogun4138]

This is the actual reality if you play the class.

It is also an actual reality that if you roam around as unavoidable gank squads that can engage and disengage at their choosing, people are going to get annoyed and create long threads asking for changes.

But its ok for healer groups ti do it? Its ok for other groups in general. Its ok for regen 2 handed knights or two handed wps... learn to use your cc

[Stinkyweed]

Debuff "150 wounds, 150 WS AND 150 Toughness with TWO CORE SKILLS ALONE"

It's on the WB middle tree scale of 93 (0) to 150 (15), pending your investment. PA+SS builds probably don't use these abilities too often unless in a 6man/SC and a particular target...and even then I'd question it's use unless their healer is a rock star.