WE and WHs changes made the game booring any fixes?

[Shogun4138]

There are other classes that solo better than a WE/WH.

And yet, the lakes are flooded with WEs and WHs, not with those clases that you say solo better. Obviously. The Magic word is stealth. Compared to stealth, those defensive stats and skills and self heal and stuff are an anecdote. Wait. WEs have those defensive stats and skills and absorb and self heal too. Wait what?

So you agree. They have the same stats. TY

[Shogun4138]

It is also an actual reality that if you roam around as unavoidable gank squads that can engage and disengage at their choosing, people are going to get annoyed and create long threads asking for changes.

But its ok for healer groups ti do it? Its ok for other groups in general. Its ok for regen 2 handed knights or two handed wps... learn to use your cc

I am confused why you would ask this question given what I just said? None of your examples are in stealth. Those examples can all be seen, can be mirrored, can be avoided. They also cannot just disengage by breaking los for 2 secs.

Every class hass cc tools.

[Slowbro]

Nice to have 81% crit where
A) 20% are straight up gone because anti crit
B) Bal is normal DMG therefore DMG is reduced by more than 70% by most classes.
C) Parried and blocked attacks so exactly 0 DMG and hey imagine spending 5seconds and several attacks to build up 5 accusations just to do 0 damage with it. Nice class mechanic here. Even better since the parry cannot be reduced to 0% anymore patch.

There was no reason to nerf the oil of WH. People just got mad that they cannot kill WH/WE with their op classes.
Btw the counterplay is stacking Ini.
Or just detaunt, punt, slow, dot and auto win.
Or have so much Armor that these classes do 0 DMG.

This game is just balanced for the Defs and their Friends / favourite players to have fun. Mdps are just there to be sacrificed for their joy. Without them there is just noone that dies anymore in this game.

[Slowbro]

Oh and thanks for buffing the exit wounds debuff duration instead of making it ignore armour like I suggested. I'm sure everyone will now switch spec and play EW. That Str and WS debuff definitely work good on casters and tanks aka 90% of players

[salazarn]

Bis WH with weekly talisman and 5% crit lini has 65% crit on bal.

Well, looks like you dont know how to build your character right. Let me help you count.
First of all - there is a new lini with 7% crit chance. Second - with mix of sov+wl+triumph+2annulus+stalwart+new lini - you will get 45-46%(depands on what weapons you use, 1bl+1fort or 2 fort) cold crit chance. And you will actually rise your chance to crit target by another 5% if you using bullets which stole target ini. So its 51% already, +25% from tactic. 76. But guess what? You also can use sov+triumph to get +7% proc from sov. Your cold crit will be lowered on 2%, but again, you will have +7% proc, so on proc your crit will be 56% (!!!)+25% from tactic. 81% crit on BAL. 81% !!!!!!!!!!!!
Nice math, totaly not OP thing, this BAL.

Also doable by witch elf as well then. the tactic just tacs 25% onto one spell. If you want to replace it with the Welf one which adds 25% damage to finishers at 5combos u can do that instead

[Pesteavino]

Its really funny, that forum "professionals" thinking that WEs can get 3/150, be tanky like SnB and do dmg like glass cannon and all this at the same time.
But what even more funny, is that guys still complaining on witchbrew, when it dosent scale from any tactic except "frenzied mayhem", its does not crit and it also need to strike target, to do dmg.
Ofc they dont have any questions to WHs finishers, who dont even need strikes to do dmg, you just apply BAL or Burn, Heretic and its ticking buy itself, you can go drink tea and watch how target dies, lol. And, i will just remind you, that now, after DPS-patch, regular bis WH have 70-80% !!!!! crit chance on BAL. But its ok, right?
You say that WE ignoring armor because they has a lot of corporeal dmg? Well, WH has a lot of spirit dmg, WE has just 1 more dot, thats all. But you always "forget" about this, right?
By the way, how many % of WE playing def specs? Right now, when i checking some random WE, it will always be some glass cannon build with SS or OYK+SS. We have like 6-8 bis def WE on server, but you still whinning...

This whole thread is full of hypocrites, who just ignoring every imbalance on order, but always whinning about some OP destro classes. I just wondering, if devs will nerf def WEs, on which class you will spit your hate next?

70-80% crit in your dreams right ? I have 40% with potion+ 25% táctic means 65% so start with not telling líes to begin with

[Fenris78]

Max achievable is about 68% crit on BaL, 30% with gear+RR, 4% from Talisman, 1% from event item, 3% by stealing Init, and 5% adding liniment.

With a bit of min-max you can achieve slighlty more (jewelry and such), but anyway the main issue is not the high crit, it's BaL hitting on physical, with abysmal WS values (and no, you cant max out WS AND Str on WH, you have to choose one, usually STR).

I often got mitigated by 50-60% on everything, so the crit chances being random, in theory it's uber OP, but in reality you wont have more than 50% effective crit on BaL and Abso, 25% on the rest.

Factor in the high Armour/Resist values on most classes that you cannot really debuff (burn armor is often not the best opener, you wont have always opportunity to open from stealth, ect), and your damage is cut in half.
And I'm not accounting detaunt/guard, or even bolster sometimes.

Reality is WH can only engage, on equal levels, and expect to win against low armour targets (Sorc, SH, Choppa, WE), some healers who forgot to punt/detaunt (provided debuffheal specced, so no ArPen to fight others), but will autolose against similarly-stuffed Magi, Monstro Mara, and any decent tank.

Not really the OP class everyone seems to think it is. Saving on lowbies and light armour, maybe yes.

On the Other side, WE looks like more suited against a wider variety of targets, because 1.More stat debuffing, 2.Strong Corpo finisher, 3.Melee-harming opener AND Caster-harming one, 4.Access to wider array of strong defensive tactics like Absorb one.

[Yellowemperor]

Its really funny, that forum "professionals" thinking that WEs can get 3/150, be tanky like SnB and do dmg like glass cannon and all this at the same time.
But what even more funny, is that guys still complaining on witchbrew, when it dosent scale from any tactic except "frenzied mayhem", its does not crit and it also need to strike target, to do dmg.
Ofc they dont have any questions to WHs finishers, who dont even need strikes to do dmg, you just apply BAL or Burn, Heretic and its ticking buy itself, you can go drink tea and watch how target dies, lol. And, i will just remind you, that now, after DPS-patch, regular bis WH have 70-80% !!!!! crit chance on BAL. But its ok, right?
You say that WE ignoring armor because they has a lot of corporeal dmg? Well, WH has a lot of spirit dmg, WE has just 1 more dot, thats all. But you always "forget" about this, right?
By the way, how many % of WE playing def specs? Right now, when i checking some random WE, it will always be some glass cannon build with SS or OYK+SS. We have like 6-8 bis def WE on server, but you still whinning...

This whole thread is full of hypocrites, who just ignoring every imbalance on order, but always whinning about some OP destro classes. I just wondering, if devs will nerf def WEs, on which class you will spit your hate next?

70-80% crit in your dreams right ? I have 40% with potion+ 25% táctic means 65% so start with not telling líes to begin with

Bullets will push that above 65%, and if you open with Fanatical Zeal, it can reach 80%.
You can even take Encourage Confessions for another 5%, but nobody does that.

[kylem20]

Max achievable is about 68% crit on BaL, 30% with gear+RR, 4% from Talisman, 1% from event item, 3% by stealing Init, and 5% adding liniment.

With a bit of min-max you can achieve slighlty more (jewelry and such), but anyway the main issue is not the high crit, it's BaL hitting on physical, with abysmal WS values (and no, you cant max out WS AND Str on WH, you have to choose one, usually STR).

I often got mitigated by 50-60% on everything, so the crit chances being random, in theory it's uber OP, but in reality you wont have more than 50% effective crit on BaL and Abso, 25% on the rest.

Factor in the high Armour/Resist values on most classes that you cannot really debuff (burn armor is often not the best opener, you wont have always opportunity to open from stealth, ect), and your damage is cut in half.
And I'm not accounting detaunt/guard, or even bolster sometimes.

Reality is WH can only engage, on equal levels, and expect to win against low armour targets (Sorc, SH, Choppa, WE), some healers who forgot to punt/detaunt (provided debuffheal specced, so no ArPen to fight others), but will autolose against similarly-stuffed Magi, Monstro Mara, and any decent tank.

Not really the OP class everyone seems to think it is.

On the Other side, WE looks like more suited against a wider variety of targets, because 1.More stat debuffing, 2.Strong Corpo finisher, 3.Melee-harming opener AND Caster-harming one, 4.Access to wider array of strong defensive tactics like Absorb one.

+ New fanatical zeal = 78%.
I have a WH 83 and really no needed that 25% Buff on BaL and is my main toon.
WE for the other hand... Need a nerf, not only the vanish skill that was mandatory change.
3k+ SS on my vanquisher engi its not normal... SS is better finisher than EW, then not only have more sustain damage than WH, now more burst too.
Poince that can be reset CD very easy.... Is the melee with more mobility (Vanish, speed boost, stagger with jump,...)
Absorb is Ridiculous on this game, you have 80 rr points and Witch elf no need spend points on Futile because have a OP tactic. Is the BEST defensive tactic of the game, the most similar is a Carrer tactic (SM mid tree) and that is core.
All classes have to spend poitns on Futile, Witch Elf no need It. While you have a absorb you are inmune to crit...

Proposal:
WH: delete bal buff, 78% crit on all ticks is too much in a class with 50%crit damage tactic
EW 50% arpen (damage was nerfed on formula last patch...still new tier weapons)

WE:swap absorb tactic to a wounds Buff tactic,600 hp every 10 sec is very good too, but not OP.
Pounce can not be reset with stealth
SS, delete slow component and arpem scales with points, 20% every point ( WE havent got tactic to build points fast like WH)

[Sever1n]

BaL situation also out of controll to be fair. But still its physical, cleansable and tics can be negated by absorbs and pots. Sorks on paper also have ton of crit, but insane absorb generation in new meta hard negate it. I would easily trade bal for SS, cos i want to burst fast and stick to target.
Problem that SS>BaL for fast burst, witchbrew >EW or burn heretic for prolonged figths. On top of that WE have ton of debuffs for free, when wh have zero, they all was put into EW. Even venehemed blades>fanatic zeal cos physical activativator is lot better. This rework feels like WE wet dream, while WH part was done quite sloppy. Which again raises questions from where they took info on the clases, and why feedback was ignored. Giving WE free skill with pounce on top, that deals damage and snares on top SS 10sec snare, was another spit into face of WH.

You been told that everything this will backfire first day after rework. Now we all BaLs deep in witchegeddon. But when i saw 2wb zerg boxrunming today it no wonder solo WH/WE now making groups. Endless loop, people afraid to figth stealth soloes and they blob, blob makes
blobier stealth ganks squads. Few years ago 2wh/we 1shoting soloes in stun was considered bad tone among them and boring gameplay, bud yeh people change. Some even started to worship def WEs, wich was spec for facerollers that forgived any mistakes.