WE and WHs changes made the game booring any fixes?

[Gunlinger]

Kinda crazy how confidently incorrect Gunlinger is.
Maybe do a little reality check before you post again.

Literally the first video I find from live Witch Elf shows that FP worked on Agonizing wound with combat log visible in the clip.
The archmage is clearly facing him. He popped FP before the AW hit on him.

Go to 0:53 and slow down the video speed.

Video time 1:00 Target Soulgiver AM. FP activated

21:00:48 Your Agonizing Wound critically hits Soulgiver for 1819 damage.(100 mitigated)
(next one is important for you!)
21:0048 Your attack hits Soulgiver for 591 damage. (103 mitigated)

21:00:50 Your Frozen Touch hits Soulgiver for 173 damage.(91 mitigated)

So going by your logic FP now also giving Armor ignore to auto attacks since both AW and AA hit are mitigated in the same margin.

Again. Feinted positioning NEVER did and was never supposed to grant the Armor ignore bonus from AW and Torment.
Yes people constantly believed it would. And that is why so many pop FP when it is not even needed.
FP is purely meant to make you able to use your Abilities that would otherwise not be useable when not standing in the back of the enemy.

[lumpi33]

But letting those 2 Classes keep an not intended 10 seconds 100% armor ignore trough FP on their highest hitting, low ap spammable builder. (on top of one of them not just every 60 sec for 10 sec, but even every 20 sec for 10 sec) is an absolute NO GO.
We had years of back and forth debates about the fairness and or balance of Rampage.
But here we are with people defending 1 class on both sides, that can 100% bypass
every single point of Armor by GEAR PIECE, TALISMANS, TACTICS, GROUP BUFFS, AURAS, POTS and HIGH COOLDOWN SELF BUFFS by activating a 10 second lasting self buff.

Interesting. That explains why people are sometimes melting so fast. Every type of armor is useless when they can hit you like you are naked. That's ridiculous.

100% bypass should not be a thing. Period.

[Shogun4138]

And any class with a good armor debuff pretty much removes what little armor a WE has. Making them fragile to say the least.

Lets be honest. You just want to be able to kill all WEs. You have no desire to spec to be a WE killer. So you need to nerf it. Its also ok for all classes to spec tanky or regen but the WE.

Seems to me you have trouble getting to your blob so you can spam aoe.

[Yellowemperor]

Kinda crazy how confidently incorrect Gunlinger is.
Maybe do a little reality check before you post again.

Literally the first video I find from live Witch Elf shows that FP worked on Agonizing wound with combat log visible in the clip.
The archmage is clearly facing him. He popped FP before the AW hit on him.

Go to 0:53 and slow down the video speed.

Video time 1:00 Target Soulgiver AM. FP activated

21:00:48 Your Agonizing Wound critically hits Soulgiver for 1819 damage.(100 mitigated)
(next one is important for you!)
21:0048 Your attack hits Soulgiver for 591 damage. (103 mitigated)

21:00:50 Your Frozen Touch hits Soulgiver for 173 damage.(91 mitigated)

So going by your logic FP now also giving Armor ignore to auto attacks since both AW and AA hit are mitigated in the same margin.

Again. Feinted positioning NEVER did and was never supposed to grant the Armor ignore bonus from AW and Torment.
Yes people constantly believed it would. And that is why so many pop FP when it is not even needed.
FP is purely meant to make you able to use your Abilities that would otherwise not be useable when not standing in the back of the enemy.

Armor is % based mitigation, so higher armor means a higher percentage mitigated; it's not a flat 1:1 reduction. Please check the aa damage and mitigation again. lol

[noronn]

Kinda crazy how confidently incorrect Gunlinger is.
Maybe do a little reality check before you post again.

Literally the first video I find from live Witch Elf shows that FP worked on Agonizing wound with combat log visible in the clip.
The archmage is clearly facing him. He popped FP before the AW hit on him.

Go to 0:53 and slow down the video speed.

Video time 1:00 Target Soulgiver AM. FP activated

21:00:48 Your Agonizing Wound critically hits Soulgiver for 1819 damage.(100 mitigated)
(next one is important for you!)
21:0048 Your attack hits Soulgiver for 591 damage. (103 mitigated)

21:00:50 Your Frozen Touch hits Soulgiver for 173 damage.(91 mitigated)

So going by your logic FP now also giving Armor ignore to auto attacks since both AW and AA hit are mitigated in the same margin.

Again. Feinted positioning NEVER did and was never supposed to grant the Armor ignore bonus from AW and Torment.
Yes people constantly believed it would. And that is why so many pop FP when it is not even needed.
FP is purely meant to make you able to use your Abilities that would otherwise not be useable when not standing in the back of the enemy.

Classic Facebook discussion…
I‘ll give you one more. Clear evidence provided 2x now. But I‘ll guess you rather die on that hill.

01:30 he hits the sorc from the front with torment


Click here to watch on YouTube

[nat3s]

These WE's def or not are gankers and scavengers that will add on to anything and this is where their ''def'' combined with stealth makes them imbalanced. This utility must come with a counter or a weakness and that is the character being squishy, Def WE bypasses that. It's simple rpg class balance design, don't design tanky stealth classes.

That's not a def WE thing, it's not even a WE thing. It's a WH and WE thing. Also, a Sac Stab WE and BAL WH is going to be significantly better at adding onto a fight due to significantly higher damage. However, 1v1 and 1vX is still more of your fights as either a WE or WH so it's obviously important to balancing decisions. If you simply removed stealth, WH and WE would be trash.

Part of the design of WH and WE is their solo ability, they don't have the tools for 6mans and WB play.

A WL is actually great at opportunistic ganking incidentally whilst also being S tier in 6man and WB play.

Seems your problem is purely stealth. On my WL I'm literally roaming *hoping* a WE will open on me.

Good so you do realize the tremendous advantage of having stealth, that's exactly why you can't compare them to your WL 1vs1 and call it balanced. It's missing most of the picture.

And discounting any other class in solo balance because they don't have stealth is missing most of the picture, balance decisions are holistic and it's obvious why that needs to be the case.

Yep, WH and WE can avoid a fight if they prefer. Benefit of stealth which again, is an intentional design going back to live.

Yeah .. but somehow you didn't think this would matter in your balance equation?
[/quote]


No, that's not what I'm saying. Stealth, stuns, punts, gap closers, staggers, disarms, melee uptime, melee downtime, dmg application, pulls - balance decisions are holistic and should consider all aspects of pvp.

You're advocating for "ignore any other balancing factor other than stealth", I'm saying "no, that's silly, you need to look at everything which contributes to class power".

[Amakusa]

Kinda crazy how confidently incorrect Gunlinger is.
Maybe do a little reality check before you post again.

Literally the first video I find from live Witch Elf shows that FP worked on Agonizing wound with combat log visible in the clip.
The archmage is clearly facing him. He popped FP before the AW hit on him.

Go to 0:53 and slow down the video speed.

Video time 1:00 Target Soulgiver AM. FP activated

21:00:48 Your Agonizing Wound critically hits Soulgiver for 1819 damage.(100 mitigated)
(next one is important for you!)
21:0048 Your attack hits Soulgiver for 591 damage. (103 mitigated)

21:00:50 Your Frozen Touch hits Soulgiver for 173 damage.(91 mitigated)

So going by your logic FP now also giving Armor ignore to auto attacks since both AW and AA hit are mitigated in the same margin.

Again. Feinted positioning NEVER did and was never supposed to grant the Armor ignore bonus from AW and Torment.
Yes people constantly believed it would. And that is why so many pop FP when it is not even needed.
FP is purely meant to make you able to use your Abilities that would otherwise not be useable when not standing in the back of the enemy.

Classic Facebook discussion…
I‘ll give you one more. Clear evidence provided 2x now. But I‘ll guess you rather die on that hill.

01:30 he hits the sorc from the front with torment


Click here to watch on YouTube

He wont see the armor ignore granted by FP on autos here too
Dont waste your time

[rorswar]

And any class with a good armor debuff pretty much removes what little armor a WE has. Making them fragile to say the least.

And that’s working as intended, as a WE should be a high risk, high burst, low defense class.

What sort of argument is that against the armour bypass that WE have? It’s completely out of whack.

You now want tons of armour on crazy burst, stealth, mobility and armour bypass as well?

[Gunlinger]

''Clear'' evidence....
Oh he hits with torment from front. YES! You can hit with torment from the front. ALWAYS.
That is not and was never the point.

The point is that there is the assumption in the room that it would have always been the case, that Feinted Positioning would not just negate the positional requirement of those Abilities that require them to be used from behind. BUT would ALSO GRANT the ARMOR IGNORE of TORMENT and AW while NOT actually being used from behind.

I am unsure by now if you just not understand the difference between ''being able to use at all'' and ''granting bonus armor ignore WHEN used from behind''

FP is not granting any armor bypass. It makes you able to use ''back side only'' Attacks from all angles.


If FP would and i say would! grant armor bypass on AW, then explain to me, was that AM naked all the time? Because if what you say is correct, then that would mean that by Toughness alone he mitigated 100 dmg points.
And with Toughness AND ARMOR, he then mitigated only 3 dmg points more


-Under the influence of FP, That front hit of AW is mitigated by 100
-And also the auto attack is mitigated by 103
those 2 are physical dmg and mitigated by armor and toughness

NONE of BOTH is without the mitigation of Armor.
AW in that dmg range without armor mitigation would have been in the 2 digit range.

And i stand by what i said before.
FP never gave ANY positional BONUS prior to 2025! The ONLY thing it GAVE was the possibility to use ''Back side only'' Abilities from all angles.

And the fact that it DOES NOW requires immediate action from the DEVS depending on
whether they intend to keep it that way or not.

The WE gets a tactic to reduce the CD of FP by 40+ ini and ws buff.
every 20 sec 10 sec of 100% armor ignore with AW spam + parry/-crit + arm pen

The WH gets a tactic to make anyone hit in the back loose 225 points of Morale by a chance of 25%

Everyone who is defending Feinted Positioning doing more then just enabling knockdown and the third tree 12 point finisher should maybe rethink if they really want to keep it that way.

Your lovely WE will go on gank squat kill you in seconds. Anyway.
But Warbands with Witchhunters on Dragon Gun/Razor strike/Burn Armor/Burn Heretic paired with Vitriolic Judgement tactic and FP, gonna hit you with 10 sec of 100% chance to roll 25% chance of 225 moral drain on EVERY ATTACK.

But hey, i am stupid and do not know anything... Apparently FP had always influence onto EVERY positional bonus other then 9 and 12 Point Abilities in third Tree.... Have fun and keep on discussing in circles about deff welfs while ignoring the Elephant in the room.

[Shogun4138]

And any class with a good armor debuff pretty much removes what little armor a WE has. Making them fragile to say the least.

And that’s working as intended, as a WE should be a high risk, high burst, low defense class.

What sort of argument is that against the armour bypass that WE have? It’s completely out of whack.

You now want tons of armour on crazy burst, stealth, mobility and armour bypass as well?

Then you miss the point. It pretty much gives other classes a full armor pass through on the WE. So its ok for them but if a WE has a like ability it's omg thats not fare.