Why SnB WP feels unplayable

[krumhur]

What if ...
Get rid of shield. Make middle (melee group healer with low dmg) and right tree 2h (pure dps with low heal, only st), left tree book.
Let the healing abilities in middle tree scale with willpower instead of str.
Give the middle tree healing a dmg part or requirement to hit someone in 5-10ft range.
This will prevent 2h dps to take the extra healing cause it doesn´t scale with str anymore. Also it has no point for book priest cause they need to be in close combat.
The double heal debuff is a death sentence in this build. Maybe rethink this.
And if u add the suggestions Tesq made ...
This just came up as i thought how to separate all 3 builds.

That's tons of work, abnormous if you consider the itemization involved and the many sets dedicated to the shield spec.

At this point the best solutions are the ones that fix the spec without requiring too much work for the Devs. The small fix applied with last patch hints at the fact that, at the moment at least, they don't want to scrap the whole build.

[Mortgrimm]

I know it´s a lot work.
I also remember with the ability rework and healer patch they wanted to make 3 different builds work. We have 2 now.
My idea was just an idea without taking any amount of work into account. On the other hand these healing abilities have already the dmg part on it, just make them scale with willpower. But ofc u need to hit someone to get the healing done.
But ... if this is possible, they will create 3 unique builds. And then u must decide what u wanna play.
Or just fix the shield build to what it was before. If this is easier. Atm it´s just not playable.

PS. Yes, they also need to create a 2h weapon with willpower and heal crit and some other useful procs.

[kpihuss]

One-week update: SnB WP / Grace in a true full-defensive setup

Hi,

I’ve spent the last week doing what keeps getting suggested in this thread: “just go full defensive and SnB WP will be fine.”
I tested it across SCs, RvR and PvE (dungeons) with a real defensive profile (not “kinda tanky”).

Full defensive profile (as tested):

• Armor: 3862 (+496 with armor pot)
• Block: 38.5% + 10%
• Parry: 21.5% + 10%
• Crit reduction: -2% chance to be crit
• Wounds: 896 (+110 with liniment/buff)
• Strength: 623 + 150 (very low — this matters for output)

This is similar to a KOTBS on Invader gear.

First, an important clarification:
The problem I’m pointing out is NOT “if you can’t 25hit, you can’t heal.”
That is the mechanic, and I’m not arguing against the concept of a melee-healer.

The actual issue is:
Even when you ARE hitting and doing exactly what the spec demands, the healing you produce is absurdly small for the cost and the risk the kit requires.

You pay the full melee-healer tax:

• must be in melee range
• must maintain uptime through CC/kiting/peels
• must spend/manage RF to convert into meaningful healing
• must survive being in the frontline without tank tools (guard/taunt/control suite)

…and the return (healing per GCD / stability under pressure) simply does not match that tax.

1) Core problem: output doesn’t justify the requirements (RF + melee risk + GCD pressure)
In full defensive, Strength drops hard (mine was 623+150) and you feel it immediately:

• your heals per GCD are smaller
• Your parry/block strikethroug is lower because u have not enough strength
• Not "heal burst". For example, divine assault heals 150-250 HPper tick (luckily) ...
• real fights don’t give you that uptime

So it’s not “I can’t heal when I can’t hit.”
It’s “when I hit and spend the resources, the output is still too low to stabilize me (or my group) under real pressure.”

2) Full defensive still requires PERMAGUARD (SCs and RvR)
This is the biggest point from my testing:

Even in a full defensive build, SnB WP still needs permaguard in both RvR and SCs.

Not “it’s nice to have.”
I mean: without constant guard, you don’t hold up reliably, because once opponents play properly (CC + kiting + focus windows), you lose uptime, the RF loop breaks, and your low output can’t recover the situation.

A healer needing permaguard just to stay functional is a massive red flag:
if your self-stability depends on permanent external babysitting, the spec is not working as a healer.

3) SCs: structural problem on top of everything (too few targets to sustain the engine like in RvR)
SCs make the issue worse for an additional reason that RvR can “hide”:

In SCs there are fewer players/targets, so you can’t sustain RF generation with Smite the way you can in RvR.

In RvR, there’s often enough “mass” to find uptime and keep the cycle going.
In SCs:

• fewer bodies to build RF with smites
• more resets / separations / short burst windows

So you end up in a situation where:

• Not enough RF for Sigmars will, the another heals dont heal enough to sustain a player alive
• you finally get some hits in… but the output is already low
• then uptime gets denied again
• you never reach a stable state where the spec “comes online”

Again: this isn’t “I can’t heal if I can’t hit.”
It’s “even when I do hit, the output is too small, and SC structure makes the required uptime unrealistic.”

4) PvE (dungeons): the ‘SnB WP is amazing in PvE’ claim doesn’t match my results
I ran dungeons this week and my experience was:

• cast healers healed more than me (sustained output)
• they also brought more practical utility for encounters where healers must play at range due to mechanics

SnB WP can look fine when it can sit in melee with minimal disruption — but in real PvE encounters with movement, spacing, and mechanics, the kit becomes awkward, and the lower Strength/output makes it worse.

5) RvR: book WPs heal easier and (in practice) often survive better
In real RvR comparisons:

• book WPs produce more consistent healing with less friction
• On all occasions when another book-based WP and I started at the same time in Warband, the book-based WP healed more than me, without exposing themselves as much and dying less in RVR. For example, yesterday a WP performed 1,000,000 more cures than I did
  

  

  Captura de pantalla 2026-03-17 003641.png (150.54 KiB) Viewed 1376 times

• they also tend to survive better because they’re not as dependent on “must be in melee, must maintain uptime” to function

Conclusion
Full defensive testing didn’t “solve” SnB WP — it mostly:

• made output smaller (low Strength)
• increased reliance on perfect uptime
• and still left the spec heavily dependent on permaguard to be playable in SCs/RvR

[Nameless]

It is abit ridicules that you want to measure the healing output with backline healers while you produce additional support dps pressure.
Beside on the posted pic you outhealed all rps and ams with +500k, some even double while you died as often as them on top of that you made more damage than all healers combined.

So i didnt really want to include myself at this topic but the things you speak sounds abit bizarre.
Devs should first pick what is the real role of frontline healers and what is their place among rest of the healers

[kpihuss]

It is abit ridicules that you want to measure the healing output with backline healers while you produce additional support dps pressure.
Beside on the posted pic you outhealed all rps and ams with +500k, some even double while you died as often as them on top of that you made more damage than all healers combined.

So i didnt really want to include myself at this topic but the things you speak sounds abit bizarre.
Devs should first pick what is the real role of frontline healers and what is their place among rest of the healers

If you read my post carefully, you’ll see that I mention I need permanent guard to produce those heals.

In other words, to achieve healing that is still lower than a book WP, and only higher than that of some casting healers, it took two players. It would be perfectly reasonable if a tank + melee healer duo, meaning two players, were required to produce the same amount of healing as, or more healing than, two healers.

As for the damage, I’m leaving you the killboard data from last night so you can see for yourself that this damage comes from Rampaging Siphons, Smites used to build RF, and some oil.

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... ge/1125270

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... ca021456be

Even if we keep comparing the killboard data, Svgwp did 42k lethal damage playing with a book, while I did 104k while being on the frontline and under guard.

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... 23f68d3f3d

And, by the way, looking at the killboard I can see that Svgwp is running Vanquisher and is only RR68, which makes the comparison even more unfavorable.

And if you keep digging into the killboard data, you’ll see that this is something that keeps happening consistently.

What we are seeing here is data, not feelings.

[krumhur]

One-week update: SnB WP / Grace in a true full-defensive setup

Hi,

I’ve spent the last week doing what keeps getting suggested in this thread: “just go full defensive and SnB WP will be fine.”
I tested it across SCs, RvR and PvE (dungeons) with a real defensive profile (not “kinda tanky”).

Full defensive profile (as tested):

• Armor: 3862 (+496 with armor pot)
• Block: 38.5% + 10%
• Parry: 21.5% + 10%
• Crit reduction: -2% chance to be crit
• Wounds: 896 (+110 with liniment/buff)
• Strength: 623 + 150 (very low — this matters for output)

This is similar to a KOTBS on Invader gear.

First, an important clarification:
The problem I’m pointing out is NOT “if you can’t 25hit, you can’t heal.”
That is the mechanic, and I’m not arguing against the concept of a melee-healer.

The actual issue is:
Even when you ARE hitting and doing exactly what the spec demands, the healing you produce is absurdly small for the cost and the risk the kit requires.

You pay the full melee-healer tax:

• must be in melee range
• must maintain uptime through CC/kiting/peels
• must spend/manage RF to convert into meaningful healing
• must survive being in the frontline without tank tools (guard/taunt/control suite)

…and the return (healing per GCD / stability under pressure) simply does not match that tax.

1) Core problem: output doesn’t justify the requirements (RF + melee risk + GCD pressure)
In full defensive, Strength drops hard (mine was 623+150) and you feel it immediately:

• your heals per GCD are smaller
• Your parry/block strikethroug is lower because u have not enough strength
• Not "heal burst". For example, divine assault heals 150-250 HPper tick (luckily) ...
• real fights don’t give you that uptime

So it’s not “I can’t heal when I can’t hit.”
It’s “when I hit and spend the resources, the output is still too low to stabilize me (or my group) under real pressure.”

2) Full defensive still requires PERMAGUARD (SCs and RvR)
This is the biggest point from my testing:

Even in a full defensive build, SnB WP still needs permaguard in both RvR and SCs.

Not “it’s nice to have.”
I mean: without constant guard, you don’t hold up reliably, because once opponents play properly (CC + kiting + focus windows), you lose uptime, the RF loop breaks, and your low output can’t recover the situation.

A healer needing permaguard just to stay functional is a massive red flag:
if your self-stability depends on permanent external babysitting, the spec is not working as a healer.

3) SCs: structural problem on top of everything (too few targets to sustain the engine like in RvR)
SCs make the issue worse for an additional reason that RvR can “hide”:

In SCs there are fewer players/targets, so you can’t sustain RF generation with Smite the way you can in RvR.

In RvR, there’s often enough “mass” to find uptime and keep the cycle going.
In SCs:

• fewer bodies to build RF with smites
• more resets / separations / short burst windows

So you end up in a situation where:

• Not enough RF for Sigmars will, the another heals dont heal enough to sustain a player alive
• you finally get some hits in… but the output is already low
• then uptime gets denied again
• you never reach a stable state where the spec “comes online”

Again: this isn’t “I can’t heal if I can’t hit.”
It’s “even when I do hit, the output is too small, and SC structure makes the required uptime unrealistic.”

4) PvE (dungeons): the ‘SnB WP is amazing in PvE’ claim doesn’t match my results
I ran dungeons this week and my experience was:

• cast healers healed more than me (sustained output)
• they also brought more practical utility for encounters where healers must play at range due to mechanics

SnB WP can look fine when it can sit in melee with minimal disruption — but in real PvE encounters with movement, spacing, and mechanics, the kit becomes awkward, and the lower Strength/output makes it worse.

5) RvR: book WPs heal easier and (in practice) often survive better
In real RvR comparisons:

• book WPs produce more consistent healing with less friction
• On all occasions when another book-based WP and I started at the same time in Warband, the book-based WP healed more than me, without exposing themselves as much and dying less in RVR. For example, yesterday a WP performed 1,000,000 more cures than I did
  
  Captura de pantalla 2026-03-17 003641.png
• they also tend to survive better because they’re not as dependent on “must be in melee, must maintain uptime” to function

Conclusion
Full defensive testing didn’t “solve” SnB WP — it mostly:

• made output smaller (low Strength)
• increased reliance on perfect uptime
• and still left the spec heavily dependent on permaguard to be playable in SCs/RvR

For PvE you should try fully offensive setups imo. Damage is predictable there, you can forego defenses and get some melee crit, which will boost your heals too. For this purpose DoKs may have better tactics tbh.

For RvR you confirmed my idea: the spec requires stellar gear and perma guard, the gameplay is much more risky and complex yet the results are not that different from a backline healer, you simply have to work twice as hard.

As for the solutions, there are too many: from balancing stats and itemization, to modifying a few skills with additional functionality, to completely changing the spec into something useful for warbands but not based only on heals (i.e. a front line supporter, with warband wide buffs like charged or CC immunities/clears/whatever, so as to require only one shield WP per warband, enough considering the guard requirement).
Best thing we can do, at this point, is trust the devs and see what they can come up.

[vanbuinen77]

The spec is where it needs to be.

[Sciberr]

The spec is where it needs to be.

Fr might be a lil to strong rn tbh

[Skaav]

Numbers are just too low, on both DMG and healing.

[Sciberr]

RoR.builders - Warrior Priest This is what I use now. It’s so simple if we just don’t play grace as a healer!