WElf Nerf

[eigner93]

sure we needs buffs 3s cd to death

In case you would have survived this 8k burst in 3 sec you would have got hit by an other 1.4k sacrificial stab and 400 witchbrew probably
But this is a very offensively built WE. He probably didnt have neither of the elixirs and important tactics or kd.

[Sever1n]

Prebuffed witchbrew was totally bullshit even before patch. Now its just on other lvl of toxicity. But yeh enjoy it for year or two, cos devs dont hear feedback and abusers drown it in piles of trashposts so can smokeskreen it longer.

[Farrul]

WE has too much and is really toxic atm when you take a look at the totality of what it can achieve( especially the kind of utility stealth gives to a class, needs to always be considered into the balance equation when balancing and giving new abilities to play with)

Stealth classes has to be balanced properly or they do tend to pour over in this manner, i've seen it before and RoR devs repeated this classic mistake in the latest mdps patch, you could argue they dont listen to feedback but i think they do. Instead i would argue they dont realize what the problem is since maybe these devs only play in a BloB all the time and ignore all kinds of smallscale imbalances.

P.S. In any scale battles, giving a stealth class pounce and the ability to reset the cd for another pounce is just wrong on all levels, at least this blunder should be reverted if nothing else.

[PROsiak]

My 7.6k wounds engi is getting 3s single KD bursted by vanq geared WE's now xd I guess against bis geared WE not even full amount of wounds talis would save me

[Alubert]

How to fix WE?
1. The only skill that ignores armor should be AW/T (WE and WH) exclusively.
2. WE must lose its leap ability (possibly in exchange for a charge).
3. WE must lose its Absorb Tactic, or its value should be reduced by half.

[Shogun4138]

The WE is working as intended. There is nothing that is more over powered than any other class. They have the some of the utilities as other classes who have more.

Stealth is really the only utility others dont have.

Your typical WE melts in warband play, faster than a choppa and not even putting out the same damage.

I think what we are seeing here is people losing to a WE or group of them. AMs, RPs, WPs, WLs, SWs, can all dot up and nuke a WE. Now BWs just aoe and kill everyone around them.

Engis have the most utility, WLs have the next, and a stance dancing SW should never die.

[Nelly74]

Prebuffed witchbrew was totally bullshit even before patch. Now its just on other lvl of toxicity. But yeh enjoy it for year or two, cos devs dont hear feedback and abusers drown it in piles of trashposts so can smokeskreen it longer.

That says it all and very well said, especially. I just can’t understand how the devs don’t notice issues that have been explained in great detail across pages and pages. So it must be intentional

[nat3s]

My 7.6k wounds engi is getting 3s single KD bursted by vanq geared WE's now xd I guess against bis geared WE not even full amount of wounds talis would save me

You're running a glass cannon setup, you cant to be all cannon but no glass right? Vanq provides surprisingly solid stats mixed with Sent. WH and WE can reach 1050 str, 450 weapon skill and 30% crit with Vanq setups which makes BAL / Sac Stab hit hard. WH will do the same to a similarly setup glass cannon Magus.

Have you considered using a solo engi setup with barrel? You'd destroy most WEs with it. Depends if you ever solo roam, if you don't, then stick with what you got as for WB / group play, you'll destroy people, but will have to accept that you'll die quickly. I know from our fights the other day that your engi hits like a mack truck!!

[PROsiak]

You're running a glass cannon setup, you cant to be all cannon but no glass right? Vanq provides surprisingly solid stats mixed with Sent. WH and WE can reach 1050 str, 450 weapon skill and 30% crit with Vanq setups which makes BAL / Sac Stab hit hard. WH will do the same to a similarly setup glass cannon Magus.

Have you considered using a solo engi setup with barrel? You'd destroy most WEs with it. Depends if you ever solo roam, if you don't, then stick with what you got as for WB / group play, you'll destroy people, but will have to accept that you'll die quickly. I know from our fights the other day that your engi hits like a mack truck!!

WH vs Magus is not as black and white as u are painting it. WH with vanq gear will be sitting at around 30-35% armor pen, with no armor debuff (let's be honest burn armor is a joke). That gives even offensively specced magnus a lot of mitigation against WH's damage (thanks to self buff and armor pot Engi/Magus could be sitting at around 2.5k armor, welcome 600dmg or less absos). Magus doesn't require weapon skill so he can also have higher wounds than engi, and he has a powerful wounds buff. On the other hand WH doesn't have a rotation that deletes anyone in a single KD. BaL is a 10sec dot. After you cast BaL it's just a beginning of such a fight, not an end. And after opening Magus has upper hand. With higher damage, with an option to actually break free and kite you, there's infinite possibilites to come on top.
I think the example you gave was a heavy miss and i do not think a skilled offensive magus would be killed by a vanq geared WH. No way.

Now take a look at WE. 55% of the total damage that was dealt in the screen i've shown was ignoring 100% of my armor. 7% was magical, only the damage from autos and heart seeker is something i can protect against. Even if i had 1k more wounds and survived it, i would probably be finished exactly a second later by a 1k pierce armor hit, only bringing the total percentage of unmitigated damage higher XD I do get it, solo meta is rock paper scissors, and sometimes there's very little u can do to turn the odds in your favor, but this isn't only about solo play. WE's in group play are running arround critting for 3.5k's, you don't even get to detaunt as you are dead before the knockdown is over. There's a lot of heavy damage classes in this game, but nothing is as oppresive as this iteration of WE.

As for solo engi i did not consider a defensive setup. I have 81 rr engi with 5 pieces triumph, 3 invader and 4k crests in my pocket. I still need like 10k more to actually finish the damage setup that i want. And since engi is one of few characters that i play, defensive setup is probably something i could hope to have a chance to try in a next lifetime, but highly unlikely in this one. But i do get it, maybe if u stacked toughness, pick shorter KD duration tactic, then you would for sure survive initial impact, but there's still a long way to come on top But i'll leave it for other folks.

[Narfii]

The WE is working as intended. There is nothing that is more over powered than any other class. They have the some of the utilities as other classes who have more.

Stealth is really the only utility others dont have.

Your typical WE melts in warband play, faster than a choppa and not even putting out the same damage.

I think what we are seeing here is people losing to a WE or group of them. AMs, RPs, WPs, WLs, SWs, can all dot up and nuke a WE. Now BWs just aoe and kill everyone around them.

Engis have the most utility, WLs have the next, and a stance dancing SW should never die.

For real. All of these suggested changes only hit the solo experience. No witch elf is using witchbrew or sacstab in wb play. Even with the wb build your damage is kinda doodoo; you have an underwhelming scaling slice, nerfed on your knees, and while blade spin is actually pretty solid it takes investment in bleeding edge/weapon skill to make work which means you're not blowing up single targets.

Stealth isn't even used in warband play. This is why the leap is essential especially in small scale, you need to be able to keep your mobility up and swap target quickly that's the whole point of the class. You sit somewhere too long you die. I'm 100% sure these comments are just people who feel bad getting blown up in solos.

And sure it feels bad sometimes. But you know what else does:
Dying to 3 am dots
Dying to engi roof spam just as quickly
Getting RP ranged stagger and caught by a warband/nuked by the dps runie(seriously this one is huge. Anyone complaining about witch elf locks but ignoring this is biased)
Shadow warriors hitting you from basically render range (did I mention the 3k+ crits)
White lion (pick something hahahaha)
Knights putting out nutty damage (love the post asking for a dps spec for it lol) with regen factors

And yet, most of these all have counterplay. I've killed and been killed by all of these on all 3 we specs. The guy above me is talking about getting nuked by a glass we as a glass engi with 7.5k health...like yeah? The glass witch elf build should have about 86-90 hp. You basically got trinity countered. As if he wouldn't nuke the we with one multi shot channel.

I think people really underestimate defenses in this game. They're super good. Even just taking FS3 goes a long way. Idk what warband leaders are out there letting glass builds into their groups but it's really not the optimal way to play and it teaches players bad habits.

Sometimes the counterplay to things is required before actually fighting them. No, getting killed in a lock by a we is not something that needs counterplay they're spec'd and designed to do that in most games. No, the counterplay to that is defenses and detaunt. I promise you the immediate heartseeker into SS stuff becomes unreliable in high rr and you have to work other things into your pattern to get the combo kill. This gives you plenty of windows for detaunt, kb, whatever.

Don't even get me started on absorb tactic. Its really only good with build support specifically on the def spec and doesn't do much against magic users (dots don't crit). You do not take it as glass or in warband spec.

Sorry for the rant it's just upsetting seeing some of these comments that just want to gimp the class cuz they don't wanna be bothered by it or learn how to counter it or change their build at all. Witch elf is strong and in a really good spot right now for all aspects of play but it is NOT the juggernaut people make it out to be. I've been outplayed plenty of times by every class.

So, sorry you got killed in your wb spec running back to the wb cuz you died out of position, or sat at a bo alone and didn't think about what to do if you got jumped, but not sorry. That's kinda the job of the class. You wanna hunt some witches? Build some defense. You'll poop on them.