WElf Nerf

[PROsiak]

For real. All of these suggested changes only hit the solo experience. No witch elf is using witchbrew or sacstab in wb play. Even with the wb build your damage is kinda doodoo; you have an underwhelming scaling slice, nerfed on your knees, and while blade spin is actually pretty solid it takes investment in bleeding edge/weapon skill to make work which means you're not blowing up single targets.

I agree this might not matter in WB play, but it affects small scale/scenarios as much as solo.

Dying to 3 am dots
Dying to engi roof spam just as quickly
Getting RP ranged stagger and caught by a warband/nuked by the dps runie(seriously this one is huge. Anyone complaining about witch elf locks but ignoring this is biased)
Shadow warriors hitting you from basically render range (did I mention the 3k+ crits)
White lion (pick something hahahaha)
Knights putting out nutty damage (love the post asking for a dps spec for it lol) with regen factors

Dots take a while to kill. You can detaunt, run away, chugg regen potions. They can be cleansed.
Dying to engi roof spam is just like dying to 6WH/WE party, at least they are not invisible.
WH's and WE's can also setup staggers from shadow for WB kills. I agree that RP/Zeal are very strong solo this patch, but it's possible to get away from them. It's not possible to get away from WE.
Fester's are crazy hitting, on that i agree. At least you got to play the game for a while, with WE u might as well unplug your keyboard the moment you are knocked down.
Rest i won't comment on, feel free to open your thread with suggestions on how to adjust the classes u mentioned

And yet, most of these all have counterplay. I've killed and been killed by all of these on all 3 we specs. The guy above me is talking about getting nuked by a glass we as a glass engi with 7.5k health...like yeah? The glass witch elf build should have about 86-90 hp. You basically got trinity countered. As if he wouldn't nuke the we with one multi shot channel.

I think people really underestimate defenses in this game. They're super good. Even just taking FS3 goes a long way. Idk what warband leaders are out there letting glass builds into their groups but it's really not the optimal way to play and it teaches players bad habits.

Sometimes the counterplay to things is required before actually fighting them. No, getting killed in a lock by a we is not something that needs counterplay they're spec'd and designed to do that in most games. No, the counterplay to that is defenses and detaunt. I promise you the immediate heartseeker into SS stuff becomes unreliable in high rr and you have to work other things into your pattern to get the combo kill. This gives you plenty of windows for detaunt, kb, whatever.

First things first, i'm not a WB player, so leave your silly comments to yourself.

Second, it's nice to sometimes take a look at what you've written before posting. First you're saying that getting deleted in a single KD is something that doesn't need counterplay and it is that way by design and then you proceed to blame me that i'm not taking measures to counterplay that.
So which is it, counterplay or not?
Cause whatever you wrote about counterplay makes no sense, cause the whole point is there is no counterplay. You think i'm not using FS3? I have only 2 ranks of offensive crit on my engi. I get it, luck is luck, but BiS geared WE can kill me even without second proc of SS, there's that much overkill. What defences should i build? It ignores defences, that's the whole point. You want everyone that wants to join group in rvr or scenario as DPS to have 800 toughness? And you can't detaunt instant KD from stealth.

[nat3s]

And since engi is one of few characters that i play

That's your problem right there.

WE has a lot of armour ignore, WH has BAL which can do 5k dmg across the dot and final tick and have a 60%+ crit chance. Trust me, I have both WH/WE in finished sov/tri and sov/vic setups at 80+. They're different but equally effective, love them both. I get the impression you think I play only WE maybe? I have 5 geared 80s all specifically picked for solo viability.

[Alubert]

It doesn't matter how many times the WE post their “wisdom.”
Like every sensible player on this server, I'm 100% certain that the WE will get nerfed.
Most WE players are very weak or average players who are scared of playing a balanced class because it would turn out that their previous successes weren’t due to their own skill but to the class.

The best WE players on the server, such as Advarka (whom I haven’t seen in a long time), Teinhala, or Agonia, will always manage just fine.

[nat3s]

It doesn't matter how many times the WE post their “wisdom.”
Like every sensible player on this server, I'm 100% certain that the WE will get nerfed.
Most WE players are very weak or average players who are scared of playing a balanced class because it would turn out that their previous successes weren’t due to their own skill but to the class.

The best WE players on the server, such as Advarka (whom I haven’t seen in a long time), Teinhala, or Agonia, will always manage just fine.

Best WEs were Hyguckma and Witchrate imo.

The only huge outlier currently in terms of solo performance is the RP, massively OP, some distant ahead of all other classes in the solo realm.

[Narfii]

First things first, i'm not a WB player, so leave your silly comments to yourself.

Second, it's nice to sometimes take a look at what you've written before posting. First you're saying that getting deleted in a single KD is something that doesn't need counterplay and it is that way by design and then you proceed to blame me that i'm not taking measures to counterplay that.
So which is it, counterplay or not?
Cause whatever you wrote about counterplay makes no sense, cause the whole point is there is no counterplay. You think i'm not using FS3? I have only 2 ranks of offensive crit on my engi. I get it, luck is luck, but BiS geared WE can kill me even without second proc of SS, there's that much overkill. What defences should i build? It ignores defences, that's the whole point. You want everyone that wants to join group in rvr or scenario as DPS to have 800 toughness? And you can't detaunt instant KD from stealth.

I'm saying you're trying to solo roam with 7.5k health. That's insanely low. I'm sure your damage is high and you'll nuke anything at range but of course you'll fold like an origami if someone closes. Here's a kill on Deawuur I had a while ago as glass; it took over 11k damage to kill him.



This one was a kill, but here's a scenario that you could play out:

Since you're an engi, you have nearly infinite utility. Since I know that immediate hs into SS will not be enough to down him I must open with hrt. This gives you a window for root. I must use root break and then charge to catch you. Now you use your KB. You know I will leap to you but there is disjoint. As soon as you see the leap you must drop the stun mine. I will get stunned and you continue kiting. I will vanish and leap again and now is when you detaunt and maybe chug an invuln pot. Idk it depends on how many cds you wanna blow-sometimes I take the death cuz I don't wanna use all 5 pots and my long cds. That with the disjoint from the leap will not kill you in the burst and then you simply drop fire on yourself chug a pot and should win the fight if you've been dps'ing while kiting. By now you should have your other utility up again. Its mostly just about surviving the kill secure attempt against glass we.

No, 800 toughness is ridiculous and not necessary even on tanks. But you should be building some amount of it and taking things like wounds talis, vic procs, def soc, FS or TB, etc. Welf only ignores armor all other mitigation plays. Players of other MMOs figured out long ago that defense is king it's only in this MMO that people cling to damages.

As an aside, in high level play you will always die in a stun. It is almost the only way to secure a kill in an organized comp fight.

[PROsiak]

That's your problem right there.

WE has a lot of armour ignore, WH has BAL which can do 5k dmg across the dot and final tick and have a 60%+ crit chance. Trust me, I have both WH/WE in finished sov/tri and sov/vic setups at 80+. They're different but equally effective, love them both. I get the impression you think I play only WE maybe? I have 5 geared 80s all specifically picked for solo viability.

You mentioned your expertise across several different characters on multiple occassions. How could i have missed that?
I just wish you didn't pick up only on least relevant things from my posts xd

I'm saying you're trying to solo roam with 7.5k health. That's insanely low. I'm sure your damage is high and you'll nuke anything at range but of course you'll fold like an origami if someone closes. Here's a kill on Deawuur I had a while ago as glass; it took over 11k damage to kill him.

This one was a kill, but here's a scenario that you could play out:

Since you're an engi, you have nearly infinite utility. Since I know that immediate hs into SS will not be enough to down him I must open with hrt. This gives you a window for root. I must use root break and then charge to catch you. Now you use your KB. You know I will leap to you but there is disjoint. As soon as you see the leap you must drop the stun mine. I will get stunned and you continue kiting. I will vanish and leap again and now is when you detaunt and maybe chug an invuln pot. Idk it depends on how many cds you wanna blow-sometimes I take the death cuz I don't wanna use all 5 pots and my long cds. That with the disjoint from the leap will not kill you in the burst and then you simply drop fire on yourself chug a pot and should win the fight if you've been dps'ing while kiting. By now you should have your other utility up again. Its mostly just about surviving the kill secure attempt against glass we.

No, 800 toughness is ridiculous and not necessary even on tanks. But you should be building some amount of it and taking things like wounds talis, vic procs, def soc, FS or TB, etc. Welf only ignores armor all other mitigation plays. Players of other MMOs figured out long ago that defense is king it's only in this MMO that people cling to damages.

As an aside, in high level play you will always die in a stun. It is almost the only way to secure a kill in an organized comp fight.

You do realize that Deawuur is running an offensively specced engi as well? The fact it took 11k damage to kill doesn't mean he has 11k wounds. You didn't burst him, so he drank potions. I'm pretty sure you can burst him in 1kd the same way you can burst me and any other character that has ~8k wounds. The example i've shown was from a witch in VANQ gear, in BiS gear the damage cap is much higher and there is less reliance on as many crits as in lower gear setups.

It's your wrong assumption that the damage will not be enough. Even if you get unlucky on the crits and he's left with 10-20% of his hp after CC wears off, you're still gonna kill him in next couple of seconds, there's very little he can do to prevent that.
The whole scenario you imagined in your head doesn't exist, if the target is dead before the CC wears off. It also doesn't exist, because you cant root and KB one after another, so you would have to reimagine it from the start again

As to 'Only ignores armor'. Armor is a defence that's supposed to protect against physical damage. When you take that away there's only toughness or avoidance left. But you cant parry from behind and toughness cant provide the amount of mitigation the armor can.
People cling to damage cause it's the only reliable way to kill in this game. With so much protection a tank can provide and so much healing healer can heal, if you join a group as a DPS with def sets, wounds talis and 30% ar pen as phys dps and your tank provides you with the opportunity of an unguarded KD'd target and you crit for 800 there's no way you're killing anything realistically.

[geezereur]

My 7.6k wounds engi is getting 3s single KD bursted by vanq geared WE's now xd I guess against bis geared WE not even full amount of wounds talis would save me

I had 9k wounds on my sorc and was getting killed in a knockdown by a white lion.
7,6k wounds is way to little.

And lets not even talk about how toxic dps runepriest are atm.

[nat3s]

RP is the meta king right now by miles, there's a literal army of them being spun up in the lakes (include myself in that - I always follow the meta!). I think it's entirely possible dps RP is the most OP spec there has been since WL 4-5 years ago pre Sov. Literally no hard fights/counters.

Mark my words, a few months from now, the lakes will be awash with RPs similar to the AM/Sham meta several years back.

[PROsiak]

I had 9k wounds on my sorc and was getting killed in a knockdown by a white lion.
7,6k wounds is way to little.

And lets not even talk about how toxic dps runepriest are atm.

I specifically stated that a BiS geared WE could burst me even if i had more wounds. Feel free to open a thread on RP and outline where lay clear imbalances, one class being out of line cannot be a justification for other being broken. I get that there is a balance philosophy that when everything's broken, nothing really is, but we're not in that situation in ror. I think devs want more balanced experience accross the board and throwing thrash feedback isn't a way of helping them.
We could be shouting over each other for 20 pages of this thread about 'this class being more broken than this class', without speaking any numbers, facts, situations etc. and nothing really will come out of this.

[Delirio]

why all thread are order players that want nerf destro

since the beginning bro...

sad story