WE/WH: What really went wrong

[Martok]

oh man, that sounded like oil company lobbyists saying that everything is fine and more oil should be burned. I'm sorry, but I couldn't watch this in full length.

Ok, but, with all due respect, if you didn't watch the segment dealing with your comments then you didn't hear where I supported the core tenet of your thesis. Which I agreed with because I thought your underlying argument sound.

[Sever1n]

https://radikal.host/i/b6SW4Q
No jew tali, no liniments, no buffs from mates.Average. 5 mins ago. 5 times - max burst in 3 seconds 6.9. Min - 4.5. Depend on covenant/fortress weapon procs and crits. Average lower than on my mara or choppa, but not a lot and it's very good result for healer hybrid.Btw if it compare with my dps WP it's a 4-5.5k 3s burst.

Weird, 6.9 is really high for no lini and tali. Can u share rotation and build? Will try to recreate it. I have big portion of damage hard mitigated by armor and tough of doll, and dont see ways to balance stats so dok wont became 7k hp glass. This link doesnt work for me, sadly. Also expected wp to be lot stronger, and your results really contradicting what i expirienced in sc/rvr.

https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/r ... ;0;4;0;0;0
https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... 2,9588,585
https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... 912/armory

Ty, dok was my headache for long time.

[georgehabadasher]

BTW, almost all DPS knockdowns were 2s on live, and tank KDs were 3s. Not sure why that was changed here.

You can't compare RoR with live. Ranged DPS doesn't have their 100% damage boost moral here, the aoe is much weaker and a lot of them cannot be stacked. Stealthers got instant disappear with speed and so on and so forth. It's a whole different game now.

When you kd a stealther here you have 0.5s to do damage after the gcd to do damage before they just disappear.

My point was adding another second to their KD is also contributing to their overtuned kit.

[Farrul]

WE need in my opinion nerf 2x pounce and(1 will be normal)

Hell no. The pounce has to go and I tell you why.

They are stealthers and have the ability to choose when to open on a target. This gives them the power of surprise, plus they have a 3s knock down, heal debuffs, high damage, dagger snare, break root, disappear with speed, disrupts, armor pierce, stagger and a m1 moral that gives them immunity against ranged attacks.

This crazy toolkit gives them everything and more to overcome any ranged dps in 1:1 when played right or just disappear.

You forgot to mention the strongest absorb tactic which makes no sense on a dps class balance ( 600/3), 3 x 150 stat debuffs ( one being wounds). To say the WE tool-kit is ''overtuned '' is to be gentle. It is ridiculous as a matter of fact.

Indeed they shouldn't have pounce to begin with. The reset 2 x thing is comical.

[Farrul]

What went wrong with the WH? Bal tactic overtuned, outshadows every other WH tree. Neglect of other builds ( middle tree,).

What went wrong with WE? A lot.

They buffed WE in unreasonable ways, as if they were competing with each other with different ''cool'' ideas, and somehow incorporated everyone's ideas into the final version without considering any balance compromises at all. The result speaks for itself.

[Shogun4138]

WE need in my opinion nerf 2x pounce and(1 will be normal)

Hell no. The pounce has to go and I tell you why.

They are stealthers and have the ability to choose when to open on a target. This gives them the power of surprise, plus they have a 3s knock down, heal debuffs, high damage, dagger snare, break root, disappear with speed, disrupts, armor pierce, stagger and a m1 moral that gives them immunity against ranged attacks.

This crazy toolkit gives them everything and more to overcome any ranged dps in 1:1 when played right or just disappear.

You forgot to mention the strongest absorb tactic which makes no sense on a dps class balance ( 600/3), 3 x 150 stat debuffs ( one being wounds). To say the WE tool-kit is ''overtuned '' is to be gentle. It is ridiculous as a matter of fact.

Indeed they shouldn't have pounce to begin with. The reset 2 x thing is comical.

Dark promise set for WH is 800 absorb..

[Panzer80]

Don't be late to the siege on your 32 SW!

[Panzer80]

What went wrong with the WH? Bal tactic overtuned, outshadows every other WH tree. Neglect of other builds ( middle tree,).

What went wrong with WE? A lot.

They buffed WE in unreasonable ways, as if they were competing with each other with different ''cool'' ideas, and somehow incorporated everyone's ideas into the final version without considering any balance compromises at all. The result speaks for itself.

Not a bad take. I've said similar. Atonement [WH] is too strong and makes middle tree needs to have more appeal and WE lacks straight forward synergy like the WH has. The main issues pre patch where that WH sucked badly against anything that had defense and WE only could do middle tree against things with high defense. Now ofc both classes nuke soft target in a few secs or less but can feel more useful against those annoying (previously) unkillable targets. As always, the complaints conflate class design with the way the game handles offense/defense balance. Good news is (imo) that the devs seem to be aware of this and that's what the gear changes are mostly about. I think.

[Panzer80]

And to this nonsense about WE absorb.. It is exactly one-half of the antithesis to repel blasphemy (defensive tactic/ability). Remove that tactic and you bust the yin/yang of WH/WE. Any crying about it without bringing this fact up is disingenuous.

[Sever1n]

WE gaslighting. All WE toxic mech was discussed and represented in details in previous topics. No amouts of "look at WH have X" or "stop crying, its your fault" tricks will help. Patch was obvious WE dream come true that was focused not on game balance, but only on boosting her already toxic instruments. If someone wanna turn this topic in another 40 pages of lies in defence that abomination, you're welcomed, but no one with brain gonna believe in that, toxicity of changes is obvious as hell. If devs truly interested in class balance that patch must be reverted till both classes have logical working specs instead of options like str ignoring grey health producing nude procktank, ws ignoring prebuffed witchbrew woundcutting pure damage nuking unkiteble burst machine etc.