Good DPS DoK changes

[kleinbuchstabe]

I suspect slayers and chopped would happily trade charge for self heals, cleanses, focused mind, ranged snare, full group cleanse, medium armor, full resists, an execute, hots, a rez, group bubble, etc, etc, etc.

nice theory craft build! sounds like an amazing class, i realy would like to play it!
but lets check it gameplay wise. I can only speak for choppa, dont know slayer that good.

self heals: Choppa has self heal channel.
medium armor: Choppa has medium armor.
ranged snare: choppa has a 25 feet range snare with 30%, wich is even AoE range around him.
dok has a covenant, wich COULD snare with 20%. But it comes only with a 20% chance. So on range, it COULD proc on Fist of Khanie (his "Axe throw")
WP doesnt even have that covenant. so who is the one with the range snare?

full resist: everyone but choppa (because of class mechanic) has "full resist". you cant seriously count this as a specific strength for dps dok.
execute: nice to have, but not unique for dps dok. Its 800+ base dmg.
Choppa has "weaklin killa" with 600+ base dmg, and reckless blow with 500+ base dmg, wich both get a 75% dmg boost when furious. So its stronger than doks execute if im not very wrong here, or at least on similar dmg lvl. And the target dont even has to be below 50% life, you can just push it, even spam it with rage tactics.

focused mind: its a M2 and not unique for dps dok, other dps have it too
full group cleanse: its also M2, like focused mind, so you cant use both at the same time
group cleanse (tactic): healer path. not available for dps dok
group bubble: healer path. not available for dps dok

so whats left are the rez and the hots
hots without any willpower and on top 40% heal reduce by tactics, are as great as it sounds. maybe it is good for solo play, to have an extra lifereg tik. But its not a gamechanger. In group you barely waste Soul Essence for it, if you have 2 healers in party. Maybe you use it from time to time while you runing to enemies, since you dont have a charge, there is more than enough time to hot yourself on the way But dont expect that this crippled hot will keep you alive.

rez: i cant wait to see a choppa, who disengage a melee fight alive (without charge!), runing to a save spot, to rez someone. You barely see it on dps doks! Its a realy rare and situational thing, like total emergency, when one healer is dead, and the other is too busy. Its not bad to have it, no doubt. But gameplay wise, again, dont overestimate it. I think every dps dok/wp would change it immediatly for a charge, with 1000 gold on top.

Unfortunatly this is a classic example for the misjudgement of players, who only look dps dok form outside, without ever played one on their own. From outside it maybe looks OP, but in reality its a different story. Also dont underestimate the efford it takes, to play a dps dok good. I played choppa as well, and i can tell you, choppa is a no-brainer compared to dok. You do the same - if not more dmg on aoe, with not even half the efford, focus, ressource management etc.

[Cullenn]

I suspect slayers and chopped would happily trade charge for self heals, cleanses, focused mind, ranged snare, full group cleanse, medium armor, full resists, an execute, hots, a rez, group bubble, etc, etc, etc.

nice theory craft build! sounds like an amazing class, i realy would like to play it!
but lets check it gameplay wise. I can only speak for choppa, dont know slayer that good.

self heals: Choppa has self heal channel.
medium armor: Choppa has medium armor.
ranged snare: choppa has a 25 feet range snare with 30%, wich is even AoE range around him.
dok has a covenant, wich COULD snare with 20%. But it comes only with a 20% chance. So on range, it COULD proc on Fist of Khanie (his "Axe throw")
WP doesnt even have that covenant. so who is the one with the range snare?

full resist: everyone but choppa (because of class mechanic) has "full resist". you cant seriously count this as a specific strength for dps dok.
execute: nice to have, but not unique for dps dok. Its 800+ base dmg.
Choppa has "weaklin killa" with 600+ base dmg, and reckless blow with 500+ base dmg, wich both get a 75% dmg boost when furious. So its stronger than doks execute if im not very wrong here, or at least on similar dmg lvl. And the target dont even has to be below 50% life, you can just push it, even spam it with rage tactics.

focused mind: its a M2 and not unique for dps dok, other dps have it too
full group cleanse: its also M2, like focused mind, so you cant use both at the same time
group cleanse (tactic): healer path. not available for dps dok
group bubble: healer path. not available for dps dok

so whats left are the rez and the hots
hots without any willpower and on top 40% heal reduce by tactics, are as great as it sounds. maybe it is good for solo play, to have an extra lifereg tik. But its not a gamechanger. In group you barely waste Soul Essence for it, if you have 2 healers in party. Maybe you use it from time to time while you runing to enemies, since you dont have a charge, there is more than enough time to hot yourself on the way But dont expect that this crippled hot will keep you alive.

rez: i cant wait to see a choppa, who disengage a melee fight alive (without charge!), runing to a save spot, to rez someone. You barely see it on dps doks! Its a realy rare and situational thing, like total emergency, when one healer is dead, and the other is too busy. Its not bad to have it, no doubt. But gameplay wise, again, dont overestimate it. I think every dps dok/wp would change it immediatly for a charge, with 1000 gold on top.

Unfortunatly this is a classic example for the misjudgement of players, who only look dps dok form outside, without ever played one on their own. From outside it maybe looks OP, but in reality its a different story. Also dont underestimate the efford it takes, to play a dps dok good. I played choppa as well, and i can tell you, choppa is a no-brainer compared to dok. You do the same - if not more dmg on aoe, with not even half the efford, focus, ressource management etc.

Thank you, that answer was really satisfying man, i felt a great relief reading this.

[georgehabadasher]

I suspect slayers and chopped would happily trade charge for self heals, cleanses, focused mind, ranged snare, full group cleanse, medium armor, full resists, an execute, hots, a rez, group bubble, etc, etc, etc.

nice theory craft build! sounds like an amazing class, i realy would like to play it!
but lets check it gameplay wise. I can only speak for choppa, dont know slayer that good.

self heals: Choppa has self heal channel.
medium armor: Choppa has medium armor.
ranged snare: choppa has a 25 feet range snare with 30%, wich is even AoE range around him.
dok has a covenant, wich COULD snare with 20%. But it comes only with a 20% chance. So on range, it COULD proc on Fist of Khanie (his "Axe throw")
WP doesnt even have that covenant. so who is the one with the range snare?

full resist: everyone but choppa (because of class mechanic) has "full resist". you cant seriously count this as a specific strength for dps dok.
execute: nice to have, but not unique for dps dok. Its 800+ base dmg.
Choppa has "weaklin killa" with 600+ base dmg, and reckless blow with 500+ base dmg, wich both get a 75% dmg boost when furious. So its stronger than doks execute if im not very wrong here, or at least on similar dmg lvl. And the target dont even has to be below 50% life, you can just push it, even spam it with rage tactics.

focused mind: its a M2 and not unique for dps dok, other dps have it too
full group cleanse: its also M2, like focused mind, so you cant use both at the same time
group cleanse (tactic): healer path. not available for dps dok
group bubble: healer path. not available for dps dok

so whats left are the rez and the hots
hots without any willpower and on top 40% heal reduce by tactics, are as great as it sounds. maybe it is good for solo play, to have an extra lifereg tik. But its not a gamechanger. In group you barely waste Soul Essence for it, if you have 2 healers in party. Maybe you use it from time to time while you runing to enemies, since you dont have a charge, there is more than enough time to hot yourself on the way But dont expect that this crippled hot will keep you alive.

rez: i cant wait to see a choppa, who disengage a melee fight alive (without charge!), runing to a save spot, to rez someone. You barely see it on dps doks! Its a realy rare and situational thing, like total emergency, when one healer is dead, and the other is too busy. Its not bad to have it, no doubt. But gameplay wise, again, dont overestimate it. I think every dps dok/wp would change it immediatly for a charge, with 1000 gold on top.

Unfortunatly this is a classic example for the misjudgement of players, who only look dps dok form outside, without ever played one on their own. From outside it maybe looks OP, but in reality its a different story. Also dont underestimate the efford it takes, to play a dps dok good. I played choppa as well, and i can tell you, choppa is a no-brainer compared to dok. You do the same - if not more dmg on aoe, with not even half the efford, focus, ressource management etc.

Okay then, let's go through these one by one.
Self heal. Choppa has a speccable self-heal on a 20s CD. DPS doks are spammable.

Medium armor: Choppa has medium armor for exactly 5 seconds until it reaches yellow.
Full resists: If we're comparing it to choppa, I can.

Execute: Weakling killa doesn't autocrit, but fair enough.

Ranged snare: It exhausts your rage so you have no damage when you connect. If you're running wot rules, you don't even have the aoe snare. Dps WP is even more broken than dps dok, they have absolutely no right to complain about anything.
Focused mind: Only rdps have focused mind, and guess what, they don't have charges too (or even rootbreaks). We're talking about choppa/slayer vs dok
Full group cleanse: Exceptionally useful in a group setting. Yes, dps dok has to choose one, but the point is it has two options that are massively superior to anything slayer/choppa gets.

Group cleanse: I didn't say anything about group cleanse, I said cleanse. Which they still get in dps mode. That guy is kiting you with a snare? Just cleanse it.
Group bubble was referring to m3, which is, again, better than anything choppas or slayers have for M3.
Hots: Still heals for ~250 every 3s, which is more than a grimshimmer and 3 fleshies. There's a reason people complain about regen gear. Extremely valuable in solo/smallscale play.

a realy rare and situational thing, like total emergency, when one healer is dead, and the other is too busy

Rez: When one healer is dead, the other one is almost by definition 'too busy.' If he hadn't been overstressed, the first healer wouldn't have died. On top of that, you can use focused mind to make the rez 1.5s. This is extremely valuable in high-level play, often the difference between a wipe and a reset.

And I forgot to mention it, but dok also has the largest armor debuff in the game.

I'll reiterate the main point of that post, which seems to have gotten lost:

The game already has 16 dps classes to balance, and the efforts to balance those have been a complete mess. Trying to make healer off-specs competitive has just resulted in an even more imbalanced small scale environment, wasted dev time and no discernible benefit to the game.