Fun is decreasing - lets discuss

[borc1]

But its ok, betetr this then nothing.

nowhere else to play is the prime reason for this server to keep getting away with ever worse patches. at least we got to enjoy new cape textures and pve

[ravezaar]

Fun is gone since long, RvR had no improvement or focus in 5y time and last thing added was Currency on Kills wich made RvR even worse. And a attempt to do 1 thing for RvR was the Champion Event, that failed instantly.

Hopefully we now get more SC pops with that new stuff, really last thing to do in this game if u like PvP

[Quintro]

Maybe there's just a loss of memory going on? All these tactics you mention have been in the game since I started playing (after all zones were open but before forts were introduced, not sure when that is). I've been golfing people on my chosen for a long time, if you don't pay attention to a tank in your midst then it's trouble. And tanks extra tankiness is offset by the extra stats/abilities that other classes get, I don't see myself as more or less tanky (when I'm in bis) than I was in previous bis gear.

And some of these have improved significantly. Morale drops used to be much tougher to deal with. Mara pull has been significantly corrected from when you could yoink people from way over the map (basically while the channel was going you could back away and they could run away and they'd still get pulled).

And some of the things that you probably would have complained about have been changed already. The icd on infernal wave stopped org wbs from insta infernal wave sorc/choppa wbs. The change to rampage removed the slayer/bw wb meta that destro could only counter by not facing it (not saying there aren't slayer issues now, just referring to this meta).

There seems to be a move on this forum to continually talk the game down and talk about some great time in the past. The game is pretty good at the moment on all your points and has improved over my time. That doesn't mean things can't be improved and that there aren't problems but this seems to be a loss of memory of what has improved.

It's interesting to me that people pretend that things were like the are since the beginning.

Abilities and morals are for since forever in the game BUT RoR is still a lot different to how WAR once was. Just a few things that come to my mind:

1. Tanks couldn't block guard damage with "parry". That is a RoR creation to make 2h tanks more viable. It does make them more viable but also shield tanks a lot more tanky since parry is usually a lot higher and easier to block than "block".

2. Not all tanks had large range punts in WAR. They recently added it to EVERY tank in RoR. Now a more tanks are playing golf.

3. Ranged dps was a lot more dangerous in WAR. BW is now a shadow of itself, SW fester arrow also got nerfed a lot. Just two examples. It makes standing in front for the pulling or running in as tank a lot less risky.

4. Healers are now stronger in RoR. They got new abilities and classes like AM/Shaman can heal faster with their new mechanic. This led again to more suvivable pullers or tanks.

5. AoE damage was a lot stronger in WAR and stackable. That you cannot stack certain AOEs here is a RoR creation. So in WAR they were stackable and did a lot more damage. It was the counter play to blobbing.

6. The disrupt rates are currently much higher than in WAR. There was no cheap deft defender in the early WAR, nor was there willpower giving disrupt, nor was there a weird mechanic that wont let you pierce more than half of the targets disrupt.

7. Stealthers got a lot new tools in RoR like instant disappear, pounce and stuff. They are a lot more powerful compared to other class than they used to be in WAR in solo or small scale.

All these things that were added / changed over the years basically increased survivability of tanks and others, increased blobbing because there is less counter play with aoe, increased the power of morals because it's the only damage that strikes through everything.

RoR is a different game. The abilities and morals are mostly the same but a lot of things around it changed that led to a different game. That being said I think that pulls are THE strongest ability in the game and they are less risky than ever these days, leading to very cheesy fishing game play. Same with moral drops, same tanks playing golf, same with stealthers. The changes that were made led to that cheesy game plays.

Well said.

[Nidhuk]

There's a long list of things leading to the decline of the fun. Ill mention a few here.

The balancing of classes has been abysmal. The inconsistency of the patches has been bad on their own and some classes have been absolutely broken by these "Balances"! Yes you can tune down classes for balance, but did you really have to break them in the process? Every class needs at least one working and competitive WB spec, instead some classes get zero?! Some classes seem to be represented better than others on the balancing team, witch seems like an issue as every class needs to be respected the same.

The balancing for CC, particular the snares been a weird one to me. If balance is the point then surely you cant have a 100% uptime on snares on destro side! The same was the case for HD on weapons for order, but at least this has been reworked.

The removal of the campaign has stopped any urgency or epicenes from the day to day fighting in the lakes. Win a fort? city? who cares beside your crests?

This is probably some years back, but I loved the channelling AOE play style with both the WP heal and BW annihilate. If those abilities where OP, why not tone them down instead of literally making it a brick for fluid wb play. What I am trying to say here is that focus is often only on the numbers, not the fluidity of the gameplay. The game feels more clunky to me now.

The only positive has been the scenario rework.

PVE changes have been great and all, but the fun factor goes out after your 10th run for that gatekept BIS item you need.

I might sound slightly order biased, but really its just where the majority of my chars are. I love fighting Destro in a propa fite and thats why balance should be the number one priority for the devs. But thats clearly not the case.

And to close out, good bye ROR it has been a pleasure.

[lumpi33]

There's a long list of things leading to the decline of the fun. Ill mention a few here.

The balancing of classes has been abysmal. The inconsistency of the patches has been bad on their own and some classes have been absolutely broken by these "Balances"! Yes you can tune down classes for balance, but did you really have to break them in the process? Every class needs at least one working and competitive WB spec, instead some classes get zero?! Some classes seem to be represented better than others on the balancing team, witch seems like an issue as every class needs to be respected the same.

The balancing for CC, particular the snares been a weird one to me. If balance is the point then surely you cant have a 100% uptime on snares on destro side! The same was the case for HD on weapons for order, but at least this has been reworked.

The removal of the campaign has stopped any urgency or epicenes from the day to day fighting in the lakes. Win a fort? city? who cares beside your crests?

This is probably some years back, but I loved the channelling AOE play style with both the WP heal and BW annihilate. If those abilities where OP, why not tone them down instead of literally making it a brick for fluid wb play. What I am trying to say here is that focus is often only on the numbers, not the fluidity of the gameplay. The game feels more clunky to me now.

The only positive has been the scenario rework.

PVE changes have been great and all, but the fun factor goes out after your 10th run for that gatekept BIS item you need.

I might sound slightly order biased, but really its just where the majority of my chars are. I love fighting Destro in a propa fite and thats why balance should be the number one priority for the devs. But thats clearly not the case.

And to close out, good bye ROR it has been a pleasure.

I 100% agree with your points especially with that "focus is often only on the numbers, not the fluidity of the gameplay. The game feels more clunky to me now."

There is too much focus on damage numbers, not looking at the class as a whole with their tools and within their groups with the synergies or what they have to face on the other side.

Many classes, abilities and builds have been wrecked/destroyed over the years. It always felt a bit random and instead of tuning stuff it got completely hammered.

For example: The SW knock back was 3s on a 100ft eye shot, usable in every stance. Now it is 2s, 65ft range, you have to waste your snare take down, only usable in Scout and Skirmish and as if that is not enough you even need the Vengeance buff active to get it, 30s cooldown. That's a complete wrecking of that 3s kd. Awful. Like every aspect of that ability got nerfed.

And they are doing it again. Why remove the armor buff from aSWs (on PTS). That's awful for such a squishy class. Or the skirmish AOE. It got no fixing, it got hammered into pieces making it unplayable. Yes, it was too strong but why nerf literally everything of it and make it useless?

People are putting hundreds of hours into their classes they love and then you get such changes. People that don't want to level a new character just gonna leave. Their intentions are probably good but that's what happening.

Id wish they would actually play the classes they are changing first to see where the strengths and weaknesses are and what they have to face on the other side before making adjustments and if turns out to be overnerfing or overbuffing when it goes live then quickly fix it without leaving it that way for half a year or more.

[M0rw47h]

For example: The SW knock back was 3s on a 100ft eye shot, usable in every stance. Now it is 2s, 65ft range, you have to waste your snare take down, only usable in Scout and Skirmish and as if that is not enough you even need the Vengeance buff active to get it. That's a complete wrecking of that 3s kd. Awful.

Because it was beyond broken and toxic in oRvR.
Person was either deleted simply by rDPS squad burst before even getting up if caught out of guard range or it was securing WL pull. Same applied to rSH KD.

[lumpi33]

For example: The SW knock back was 3s on a 100ft eye shot, usable in every stance. Now it is 2s, 65ft range, you have to waste your snare take down, only usable in Scout and Skirmish and as if that is not enough you even need the Vengeance buff active to get it. That's a complete wrecking of that 3s kd. Awful.

Because it was beyond broken and toxic in oRvR.
Person was either deleted simply by rDPS squad burst before even getting up if caught out of guard range or it was securing WL pull. Same applied to rSH KD.

It was strong yes but that was a 6x nerf. Less duration, less range, stance requirement, Vengeance requirement, higher cooldown and you put your snare on cooldown. I've never ever seen them doing this to a destro ability. You think Gork Sez Stop is not toxic or Zealot Wind or Mara KD or Choppa pull or Dok snare prayer. Did these abilities get wrecked like the SW kd? No.

rSHs were not having a KD in WAR. It was a RoR thing. rSHs were completely overloaded with great tools with that KD. I still remember the forum posts from back then were people said that rSHs have literally everything and they were not wrong, that's the reason it got removed again.

[M0rw47h]

For example: The SW knock back was 3s on a 100ft eye shot, usable in every stance. Now it is 2s, 65ft range, you have to waste your snare take down, only usable in Scout and Skirmish and as if that is not enough you even need the Vengeance buff active to get it. That's a complete wrecking of that 3s kd. Awful.

Because it was beyond broken and toxic in oRvR.
Person was either deleted simply by rDPS squad burst before even getting up if caught out of guard range or it was securing WL pull. Same applied to rSH KD.

It was strong yes but that was a 6x nerf. Less duration, less range, stance requirement, Vengeance requirement, higher cooldown and you put your snare on cooldown. I've never ever seen them doing this to a destro ability. You think Gork Sez Stop is not toxic or Zealot Wind or Mara KD or Choppa pull or Dok snare prayer. Did these abilities get wrecked like the SW kd? No.

Not sure if serious? Let me give you few examples:
Piercing Bite armor penetration went from 50% to 15%, Gift of Monstrosity used to give 100% reduced armor penetration, Impale used to be spammable, Winds of Insanity used to be a toggle (not channel) during which you could still cast spells, Run Away! had no ICD and Crippling Strikes would make you uninstall your game.

[lumpi33]

Not sure if serious? Let me give you few examples:
Piercing Bite armor penetration went from 50% to 15%, Gift of Monstrosity used to give 100% reduced armor penetration, Impale used to be spammable, Winds of Insanity used to be a toggle (not channel) during which you could still cast spells, Run Away! had no ICD and Crippling Strikes would make you uninstall your game.

These things were crazy overpowered and reduced in power yes but were they 6x nerfed like the SW kd? No.

If Piercing Bite were an Order tactic it would look like this:
- When switching to Brutality your armor penetration is increased by 15% for 5s. Needs Active Aggressor. Only for abilities that need an active mutation. Cannot be triggered more than once per minute. Need to do a handstand before performing this.

That's the kind of stuff order is getting. See PTS patch for SW:

- Guerilla Training: Moved to core tactic, available at level 37 and reworked into: After switching stance your action point costs are reduced by 25% for 5 seconds. You gain an additional bonus for 5 seconds, based on the stance that you enter:
* Scout Stance - Auto attack damage increased by 25%.
* Assault Stance - Incoming damage reduced by 15%
* Skirmisher Stance - Movement speed increased by 20%.

5 seconds after stance switch... 5 seconds! and I don't even want to switch stance as Scout because it makes me loose all my Scout abilities and therefore all my damage...

In reality that Piercing Bite nerf wasn't even that big because the stacking changed. Maras still have very high armor pen. The other things you mentioned are still pretty good. The Run Away! still doesn't break when using ability and Order doesn't have something similar. They still have that Auto Detaunt Order doesn't have. They still have that Zealot Wind Order doesn't have...

[Draugris]

4) Crests and RR are easier gained in a blob

So what's left is if you're in a guiild to group up as 6-12 men and farm noobs for kills, or if you're not organised then join a PUG WB and find safety in numbers to get kills.

It is basically the decision between fun vs efficiency. If you need crests and renown, the best thing since sliced bread is you join a zerg; the bigger, the better. Find the enemy zerg at a location easy to get to and mindlessly go back and forth. You will get showered in renown and crests. If the zone finally locks because somebody remembered what the mechanics of RvR are, then you have increased your chances for a bag also. Boring, yes, efficient, hell yes.

Or you could get solo kills or roam in a group, have fun and get, no so much...

I think this killed it for many people.