Proposed WH changes

[Endari]

Well, nobody said scout has to survive...

Imagine asking your slayer to push with WB and him telling you "nah bro, I might die".

Yeah that slayer sitting in the blob with heals and guard and a rez available, while your scout is alone and probably a long run back to a keep on the other side of the zone from their spawn. totally the same thing though right? who cares about their time as long as they do as the blob demands.

[M0rw47h]

Well, nobody said scout has to survive...

Imagine asking your slayer to push with WB and him telling you "nah bro, I might die".

Yeah that slayer sitting in the blob with heals and guard and a rez available, while your scout is alone and probably a long run back to a keep on the other side of the zone from their spawn. totally the same thing though right? who cares about their time as long as they do as the blob demands.

You got AoE heals too. Imagine all mdps used to bypass posterns, but 60s stealth made everyone lazy.

[Narfii]

Well, nobody said scout has to survive...

Imagine asking your slayer to push with WB and him telling you "nah bro, I might die".

Yeah that slayer sitting in the blob with heals and guard and a rez available, while your scout is alone and probably a long run back to a keep on the other side of the zone from their spawn. totally the same thing though right? who cares about their time as long as they do as the blob demands.

You got AoE heals too. Imagine all mdps used to bypass posterns, but 60s stealth made everyone lazy.

I'm glad you brought this up. Keeps lack depth specifically because there is no way to get a real group with support inside to contest walls/etc. This limits play lines significantly and makes keeps not unlike a game of Overwatch.

Trying to justify current bypass with aoe options and "stealth lazy" is a troll larp.

The stealth classes should've gotten tools to facilitate these play lines. A group bypass is a huge missed opportunity. Balance it to 1 cd/wb or whatever you need to do, but the fact is keeps are extremely shallow and should be explored much, much more.

[abezverkhiy]

Scouting is dead. One of the first things I did when logged on the test server I went to Praag and started testing this new duration. Then I posted findings and the same trolls laughed at me and applauded the nerf.

Here it is. Scouting is dead. Want to scout - roll WH, sneak in and die my dear trolls.

[shoelessHN]

This server had 30s stealth for years and it was just fine.

[abezverkhiy]

Was it?

I missed the time when developers removed limits from stealth, that happened during one of my MMO detox periods. But I noticed how much more unsafe keeps became with the change after I returned to ROR. Previously everyone was too careless behind the walls. And then there were witch elves attacking out of blue!

So when I read - "it used to be 30 seconds" I think - yes, it was. But what makes you think this was right? WAR ended in a pretty bad shape bug-wise and balance-wise. ROR developers made lots of good changes and this was one of them. If we follow logic "it was like that before" then no changes were necessary. When they removed limits from stealth it could last up to 2.5 minutes. Scouting was easy. Then they capped it to 1 minute. Not good but still, enough to scout. Now it is 30 sec and scouting is no longer possible. The other day I was guarding a postern during a siege when Destro had 100% aao. There was only one attempt to get through the postern by some desperate mara. No witch elves. Players are not stupid - if something does not suit them, they would not do it. Capping stealth to 30 sec was a stupid move, gankers will still be ganking but scouting and keep infiltration take a serious blow.

[nat3s]

I personally think the devs did well with their WH/WE changes in the last patch. I have 82+ WH and WE both in full BIS. They remain great solo classes, they will never be (and shouldn't be imo) great WB classes. They are excellent in 6 man play, 75% heal reduction is super powerful on an assist train.

30s stealth is a pain, no getting away from that, but that's exactly how it was on live. WH definitely isn't as potent as live, but then neither are rampaging 1 man armies that were WLs on live! RoR balance is many orders of magnitude better, I much prefer how things are here vs the rr100 absolute shred monster I could be on live which felt completely cheesy (I was a solo roaming WL/WH back in the day).

[Narfii]

This server had 30s stealth for years and it was just fine.

Anybody who played live can tell you how ass this was and how big of a QoL improvement 60s was.

[coldhunter]

This server had 30s stealth for years and it was just fine.

But for some reason you "forget" to say, that other mechanics was different as well, right? Like gcd was lower, which allows WH/WE deal much more dmg for the same time, weapons wasn't squished, which gives more dmg, bullets/kisses can crit back then and a lot-lot-lot other things. But ofc you just cherrypicking because you just hate stealthers and we all know that.