Is oRvR too Objective Oriented? (Increase Renown For Kills)

[dkabib]

Since Dev's seem to be paying attention to this thread I would like it if I could get the devs opinion on my purposed temporary fix to at least quell some of the frustrations.

http://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum/ ... f=8&t=6631

I'm sure the devs saw that.

[boog]

I think loosing renown is a terrible idea, to whomever suggested it, when dying regardless of the amount. ArcheAge did the same thing with their PvP point system and the result was people not doing open world PvP out of fear of losing their points and everyone just playing ranged and stealth and instead of the zergs colliding there was a huge gap where ranged dps just volleyed into the other zerg and any melee that broke away from their zerg was picked off instantly.

I can see how adding more renown per kill for the lakes could be beneficial but it is just amplifying the means of already existing problem. It is kind of like I am full so I will keep eating so that way I'm not full anymore. I think the result will be the zerg just gains even more renown than the minority realm.

Like a ratio. If it is 2:1 and you want to double it you get 4:2 but at the end of the day it is still 2:1.

[Azuzu]

Since Dev's seem to be paying attention to this thread I would like it if I could get the devs opinion on my purposed temporary fix to at least quell some of the frustrations.

http://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum/ ... f=8&t=6631

I'm sure the Devs saw it.

I think renown per-kill needs to be increased to make your idea work.

As the system stands, your idea simply incentives not resisting. If the don't resist, the keep gets flipped faster, you get your losers flip.

However! If you combine the two ideas, it can work. More renown per kill encourages fighting so people resisting/defending will be encouraged. If and when the side loses, they get a flip as well.

You need more renown per kill to make it work tho.

You missed the part where I said AAO + More Renown per kill. The AAO takes care of the part your concerned about the zerg only benefiting from it.

400% AAO plus a baseline increase of renown per kill will make being the underdog really appealing.

[Mez]

Your suggestion is like, let us get into the mind of the pug. Really see what makes it tick. Ah, increase a reward he essentially has zero cares about.

The instruments and mechanics of RvR are only such to lead sheep into the pasture. You need to keep that grass green. And you need to know who your player base is made up of. What you have is a bunch of wolves on the forums, trying to figure out ways to separate sheep into smaller groups. It's brilliant stuff that has no bearing on what a pug wants to do.

The only concern right now is the underdog flock of sheep. They seem to die and log off. Or with the new RvR system, they are being asked to continuously go into a pen to die over and over. The underdog sheep doesn't care about purple pixels or AAO. They just want to be able to do something that doesn't involve their immediate death.

AAO will help though, because it will make more wolves switch sides to the underdog realm and thin the herds. It's it's main function. Whenever I played with War Monkeys on live, they were always following the AAO, whether that meant switching realms or zones.

But your main zergs just want to do stuff, and in the safety of numbers. The current system doesn't offer that to the underdog side.

[boog]

Since Dev's seem to be paying attention to this thread I would like it if I could get the devs opinion on my purposed temporary fix to at least quell some of the frustrations.

http://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum/ ... f=8&t=6631

I'm sure the Devs saw it.

I think renown per-kill needs to be increased to make your idea work.

As the system stands, your idea simply incentives not resisting. If the don't resist, the keep gets flipped faster, you get your losers flip.

However! If you combine the two ideas, it can work. More renown per kill encourages fighting so people resisting/defending will be encouraged. If and when the side loses, they get a flip as well.

You need more renown per kill to make it work tho.

You missed the part where I said AAO + More Renown per kill. The AAO takes care of the part your concerned about the zerg only benefiting from it.

400% AAO plus a baseline increase of renown per kill will make being the underdog really appealing.

You are correct I did neglect the AAO idea, my apologies. I agree, if the two ideas were merged I think we would have a MUCH better situation than we do now.

An increased incentive to fight and a less frustrating debacle when underdog looses. I like it!

I'm also just realizing this is exactly what live WAR did lol

[Azuzu]

Stuff you wrote

I get exactly what your saying and love the way you explained it. Your one of my favorite posters to read, your always very entertaining, while getting your point across.

The problem is when "sheep" have safety in numbers the larger flock is always going to win. There isn't a lot we can do about that.

I do hope that a flat increase in renown + AAO would make killing players rewarding enough that the losing "sheep" get enough out of kills/defending (losing) that they keep playing. I believe rewards, especially for "sheep", are one of the biggest motivating factors.

The problem is the current system is that current renown per-kill is too low. So the "wolves" have no reason to be in oRvR aside from fun. So instead of helping protect the sheep they que SCs.

I think a flat renown increase + AAO will help tip the scales.

I'm also just realizing this is exactly what live WAR did lol

It's funny on live I remember people being excited about defending because it was great renown. You got a so much renown for kills and even if you lost you got the losers flip.

Hell even without AAO keep defense was great renown from killing + loser flip.

[Mez]

Okay, i'll buy that. I think one night I calculated it would take like 6 player kills in my duo to equal standing at 1 objective for both ticks. It is to low for us wolves. It would be an incredible bonus to go along with the release of AAO, and one that would get more premade people to switch to underdog.

I'm not actually against your idea at all, I just wanted to take what Azarael wrote and write something so I could hear myself talk.

[dkabib]

I think a flat renown increase + AAO will help tip the scales.

Both are a must have.

[Azuzu]

Okay, i'll buy that. I think one night I calculated it would take like 6 player kills in my duo to equal standing at 1 objective for both ticks. It is to low for us wolves. It would be an incredible bonus to go along with the release of AAO, and one that would get more premade people to switch to underdog.

I'm not actually against your idea at all, I just wanted to take what Azarael wrote and write something so I could hear myself talk.

Like I said, I enjoy reading your stuff, so no complaints here about you writing just to hear yourself talk. lol


I think your under-estimating the motivation "sheep" get from rewards. Good items/rewards can help turn "sheep" into "wolves".

The thing is, they don't want adversity or much difficulty in obtaining those rewards. They aren't afking keep doors for fun, they do it for rewards.

Right now the underdog "sheep" get nothing out of defending. So they log off quickly when losing. If you make defenidng lucrative via increased renown for kills you would see more people interested.

I think people will put up with dieing and "losing" if they can at least see they are getting something out of it.

[Thorgrumm]

Just some ramblings from my usually lurking self...

BO's arent 'taken' they need to be 'held' in order for it to be classed as captured. If there are no players standing at the BO it is neutral. If one side kills everyone holding the BO it immediately flips to being owned by the victors as they now have players holding it. If the attackers then move from it, it turns neutral until someone else turns up. There is no renown tick from BO's. The map just shows who currently owns a BO, it does not indicate that it is under attack, the players need to broadcast this in region.

Keep doors can only be attacked (take damage) if all BO's are held by a faction (or two BO's whichever is deemed reasonable). This makes it easier for the underdog to halt a keep attack by taking and holding a BO, or just skipping from one to the other, turning them neutral. The 'zerging' side would need to split between holding BO's and attacking the keep. This might then scatter the fight all over a zone which should make premades happier (I've never been in one so guessing here) and give pugs a reasonable tactical game and requirement.

The larger fight would be at the keep, with smaller fights trying to hold the BO's. Sometimes the larger blob attacking the keep would need to stop and help retake BO's with some of them then staying to hold them. Once the keep door goes down, BO's stick to being owned by the winning side but are now irrelevant and dont need holding, and everyone can converge on the keep if they want to, but dont actually need to for getting rewards (see below).

Increase the renown gained from player kills, add in AAO, remove the tick from a keep capture, change it to a zone tick only once the keep is captured so that it doesnt matter where you are in the zone you still get a juicy tick for capturing the zone. I hate the idea of people running from a perfectly good fight just because they need to get to the keep. The losing side gets a smaller failed zone defense tick.

Loot roll is zone wide for the winning side, again removing the need to be in the right place at the right time just for a larger tick and chance of loot. Loot is then mailed to people.

Just some spitballing with a textwall, but I love reading the community discussing stuff like this so I thought that I would at least post my friday night after work idea.