Nerfed buttons

[magicthighs]

Those mods you listed make it easier to see things, xavra42, and there's nothing wrong with improving the game interface in the way these mods do. They do not automate gameplay in the way that NB can do.

[Azuzu]

Those mods you listed make it easier to see things, xavra42, and there's nothing wrong with improving the game interface in the way these mods do. They do not automate gameplay in the way that NB can do.

It's really grasping at straws to say a group unit frames is the same thing as something the directly interacts with your skills.

I also don't get what wsct or buffhead has anything to do with dexterity.

I bring up dexterity when talking about NB, because it lessens the amount of buttons needed to be pushed, a more dexterious person has an easier time pushing said buttons.

Seeing my spell hit for X amount of damage or that player has X debuffs above there head, really had nothing to do with dexterity.

[xavra42]

I wasn't sidestepping, I was trying to get to the core of the argument. You said

"I think anything that helps automate abilities, reduces dexterity required and eliminates/reduces decision making under pressure as too much of an aid "cheating". "

I just told you how 2 of the addons give you an advantage in the game are not simply for looks. If we aren't going to agree on what the core issue is, then there is no point in continuing the argument. As I've said, in the current state of the game, Enemy gives you a huge advantage esp if you're a healer. I know because I actually use it and manually 360 degree scanning around for injured players in scenarios is a huge handicap. That alone improves my play much more than nerfedbuttons. I'm not gunna back down from the point that these addons don't give you an advantage, I will just quit the discussion.

Using your premise that if it makes your play better than those that don't use it, then it is cheating means your a cheater too. So let's change the discussion into something more cooperative and find out what is really wrong with nerfedbuttons.

[Azuzu]

I wasn't sidestepping, I was trying to get to the core of the argument. You said

"I think anything that helps automate abilities, reduces dexterity required and eliminates/reduces decision making under pressure as too much of an aid "cheating". "

I just told you how 2 of the addons give you an advantage in the game are not simply for looks. If we aren't going to agree on what the core issue is, then there is no point in continuing the argument. As I've said, in the current state of the game, Enemy gives you a huge advantage esp if you're a healer. I know because I actually use it and manually 360 degree scanning around for injured players in scenarios is a huge handicap. That alone improves my play much more than nerfedbuttons. I'm not gunna back down from the point that these addons don't give you an advantage, I will just quit the discussion.

Using your premise that if it makes your play better than those that don't use it, then it is cheating means your a cheater too. So let's change the discussion into something more cooperative and find out what is really wrong with nerfedbuttons.

The game has both working group and warband unit frames, Enemy simply changes the look of those unit frames. Within the game itself you can resize and move the default unit frames.

The game has nothing like NB built into it.

You still haven't answered how NB can be used that does give an advantage or simpify things, thus making it easier.

Your argument is, NB gives an advantage, but so do other addons, so it's ok?

[xavra42]

Those mods you listed make it easier to see things, xavra42, and there's nothing wrong with improving the game interface in the way these mods do. They do not automate gameplay in the way that NB can do.

Ok man you're not reading my posts. I answered why I use NB and I've been fair and admitted that it can only give you an advantage. How big of an advantage is too much is the question we should be asking. I don't think it helps that much, but ppl who have never used it keep claiming things it isn't capable of. And saying Enemy and buffhead do not make things easier is simply dishonest.

[xavra42]

I wasn't sidestepping, I was trying to get to the core of the argument. You said

"I think anything that helps automate abilities, reduces dexterity required and eliminates/reduces decision making under pressure as too much of an aid "cheating". "

I just told you how 2 of the addons give you an advantage in the game are not simply for looks. If we aren't going to agree on what the core issue is, then there is no point in continuing the argument. As I've said, in the current state of the game, Enemy gives you a huge advantage esp if you're a healer. I know because I actually use it and manually 360 degree scanning around for injured players in scenarios is a huge handicap. That alone improves my play much more than nerfedbuttons. I'm not gunna back down from the point that these addons don't give you an advantage, I will just quit the discussion.

Using your premise that if it makes your play better than those that don't use it, then it is cheating means your a cheater too. So let's change the discussion into something more cooperative and find out what is really wrong with nerfedbuttons.

The game has both working group and warband unit frames, Enemy simply changes the look of those unit frames. Within the game itself you can resize and move the default unit frames.

The game has nothing like NB built into it.

You still haven't answered how NB can be used that does give an advantage or simpify things, thus making it easier.

Your argument is, NB gives an advantage, but so do other addons, so it's ok?

Scenario frames don't work and wb frames are a recent fix. Enemy is an advantage in that you can heal without even looking behind you. Nor is enemy an addon that even comes with the preinstalled list. Healers using enemy are going to have it much, much easier than ones that don't and yet no one calls enemy out. This is a witchhunt of nerfedbuttons by players who never even used it.

Nerfedbuttons lowers the amount of buttons you need on your action bar at the cost of having to follow a predefined script rather than adapting to the present situation. And that's why I use it. Not to make me better, but because before I would have my rotation on buttons 1-5 and every fight and every npc grind I'd go 1,2,3,4,5..... and it was tedious. It doesn't improve your skill as much as make things more convenient. Kind of like the addons that display information on the screen in a more productive way than stock.

[Azuzu]

Those mods you listed make it easier to see things, xavra42, and there's nothing wrong with improving the game interface in the way these mods do. They do not automate gameplay in the way that NB can do.

Ok man you're not reading my posts. I answered why I use NB and I've been fair and admitted that it can only give you an advantage. How big of an advantage is too much is the question we should be asking. I don't think it helps that much, but ppl who have never used it keep claiming things it isn't capable of. And saying Enemy and buffhead do not make things easier is simply dishonest.

I get the just of your argument, that NB gives an advantage, but it's not a huge one.

That other addons give and advantage too.

I don't agree with you, but I can respect what your trying to say.

I don't agree because I believe UI addons like Enemny simply change the look of something alright in the game. With Enemy you still have to watch the HP bar, click or keybind target the person and press the heal button.

NBs is a feature not in the game and it uses skills for you.


I'm sorry, I don't agree that a visual mod is anything like an addon that lets me use 5 buttons instead of 10, while still getting to use all 10 skills.

Pressing 1 button to do multiple things is a big advantage. Your argument is, pressing 1,2,3,4,5 is too tedious....so to make it more interesting now you just press 1.

[magicthighs]

Those mods you listed make it easier to see things, xavra42, and there's nothing wrong with improving the game interface in the way these mods do. They do not automate gameplay in the way that NB can do.

Ok man you're not reading my posts. I answered why I use NB and I've been fair and admitted that it can only give you an advantage. How big of an advantage is too much is the question we should be asking. I don't think it helps that much, but ppl who have never used it keep claiming things it isn't capable of. And saying Enemy and buffhead do not make things easier is simply dishonest.

The difference is in automating gameplay and improving the default interface, as has been mentioned my many people in this thread so far. I am reading your posts, but you seem to have trouble differentiating between these two things.

[magicthighs]

Nerfedbuttons lowers the amount of buttons you need on your action bar at the cost of having to follow a predefined script rather than adapting to the present situation

This is the whole issue. You're scripting your gameplay.

[Mez]

Addons and modding is part of the MMO culture and setting up your UI and spending time on crafting mods to suit your playstyle with visual queues and information is hardly cheating if it's permitted and available to everybody.

Enemy helps you see where your guard is. It is not in the stock UI, however the developers left the UI open to such visual assistance. So it's not cheating, it's literally playing the game.

At least visual mods only give you a pronounced alert, you still have to make a decision what to do with the information. Nerf Buttons completely breaks the 4th wall and removes your decisision making, and all the muscle memory that comes with knowing your hot bars. You don't have to learn alt+1 through 6, shift 1-6, ctrl 1-6, mouse hotkeys, F-key keybinds for example. And it is still not cheating because mythic left the code open for it. I mean, the community might consider you a clown, but they aren't technically cheating.

It should be though, but Mythic failed us on that. And the mod Calling, that allowed 1 main assist to punch a key and his entire party would switch targets to his I considered another mod that broke the 4th wall and should have been banned. Literally if you run nerf buttons and calling, you could run around and 1 guy just controls the whole team's focus and you just sit there spamming 1 button. Mythic failed us big time on the UI. But it is what it is.