build it backwards

[Mystriss]

I do actually agree, give everyone 80/100 and let's raise hell, but again all the coding to get to that point is going to take a long while, so then the question becomes: are folks going to get bored and quit because they're stuck in T1 until all that coding is done? The carrot on the stick of working from the bottom up is we can put out new areas/tiers to keep them playing...

Perhaps it's a question the devs could shine a little light on; how likely is it that we could get 80/100 working 'before' too many players say **** T1?

[paps]

Why to play game if u get instant RR80/100, maybe u want all armor/wep to?

They have good idea of what they doing and what they are going to do...

lets say we want to play this game 2-3 years in spear time when we relax and we want some good fights, well gess what u gona get bored after 6 month playing as rr80/100 with full armor, playing same rvr maps, scenarios...

Cose u gave your personal opinion about how u think they should do it let me do same (this is not me trying to tell any1 what to , just something i dream and want to make this tread constructive and if 0.01% we say help i will be happy...).

First to say rushing content is something that happens when company runing game want all players to expirance "end" game content before next expansion. We all remember wow and all prequests they had so u can go in to harder and harder content with a feeling of progress, but they removed them and at end u could go strait to BT...
Now we have people making private servers and they relese content how they natural should go.

Now cose this is fan bast project and dev effort to make game like it was, there will be no new things added to game as we all know...

So how should progress look like (again not telling any1 what to do just personal opinion ) :

After class mechanics, states, skills, tactics, MDPS bug ! make all maps and influence in t1, scenarios to. (perfect would be to have all tomes, achievements etc... but we need to be realistic and leave that for end)
Wile we hard test all those working skills and stuff, t2 should "fully" be fixed again t2 skills and tactics, talents, maps, t2 dungeons, and rest things before released... same with t3 and t4 in future.

And again this is not demand or enything we just chating to past time

[Sulorie]

For long term fun all we need are at least T2 keeps. But this is not important until T1 rvr is fully working. T2 rvr mechanics are similar to T3 but T4 is more difficult and not needed imo. T3 rvr was the most fun imo.

[paps]

For long term fun all we need are at least T2 keeps. But this is not important until T1 rvr is fully working. T2 rvr mechanics are similar to T3 but T4 is more difficult and not needed imo. T3 rvr was the most fun imo.

+

This is what i didnt mentioned in post to make it as short as possible

[aldorn]

im not saying 'rush' anything. im simply saying prioritise the character mechanics before anything and everything else.

and yes i think we could skip all the leveling and get to the fight already. but thats just my opinion.

[Mystriss]

I do believe we are ‘all’ in agreement that character related fixes have to come before the 'fluff.'

I'd like to quickly note that it's not 'just' about skipping PvE, fix all the **** and I can crank out a level 40 in under a week – ho hum. It's ultimately that a lot of us folks want a semblance of 'our' characters back, which is often not possible to recreate without those higher level character abilities and customization options. For example, I cannot [effectively] play my melee SW in T1 because I flat out don't have the abilities necessary for it, nor the career/RR point allocations I ABSOLUTELY NEED to make that play style work [effectively.] I happen to be lucky in that I've played a SW in every tier and play style possible and I enjoy them all, but for folks who had that one play style they loved, the game is quite simply not the same, and it WON'T be until that character customization is available to them.

Personally I was in T4 from idk mid/late 2008 until 2012 (when almost none of my rivals were left) - and even after their exodus, I STILL came back to T4 more than once trying to make new rivalries. I also know quite a few who continued playing T4 until the very last second without getting 'bored' of it (mostly order, unfortunately for me heh) That is not to say I disagree that there are a lot of folks who 'would' get bored. There is quite simply no black and white on the player boredom issue, it is all shades of grey. The trick is to find a happy medium that keeps BOTH camps happy. Aldorn ‘is’ right, there are a lot of players who ‘would’ come back if there was a 80/100 option. Regardless though, I can tell you, from those I personally knew and played with/against, that most of them did NOT quit because they got “bored” in T4, they left because EA made stupid decisions and ultimately gave up on WAR.

NSFW (and likely offensive to some) ranting

Spoiler:

I had a SW guild harem in 2010, and lots of additional of SW player friends outside of my guild - WAR lost 99% of them because of the hasty, stupid, rash of SW altering patches EA **** out (http://social.bioware.com/project/3250/discussion/2692/) We long standing players of the Shadow Warrior community argued until blue in the face against MOST of those idiotic changes - the Devs basically told the SW community to **** off and many, many Sexy Boots did just that. There was at one point two SW focused guilds in the NA; both of them were almost completely decimated by the ****-tard patches that were little more than a scrambled riot of uninformed 'too little, too late' attempts to appease SW's who had suffered for years without even the basic foundation of working **** abilities put in the game at launch. Every patch my Sexy Boots struggled to come to grips with modifying their play styles to fit the 'new' SW, to fit with the other changes in the game that happened at the same time, eventually they threw in their boots - and I could not even 'try' to convince them that it'd work out for us if they just stuck with it a little longer because I knew it would have been a lie...

I imagine you would find similar complaints in other class enthusiast player camps as well. There is absolutely no question in my mind that it was not boredom that ultimately killed WAR, but the fact that EA did not listen, nor give one single ****, what their loyalist players in WAR wanted. They drove off their steady fan base in a greedy grab for **** "***** subs" - those who wank themselves off as "the best in the game" and leave as soon as they find real opposition to that title, or those who blow their PvE content wads and don't even pay child support. Then EA shrugged at us reliable, loyal sub's, said ‘guess that didn't work out as we thought it would,’ and promptly focused all their attention on squeezing out another pile of **** to flush down their septic money holes. That game lasted far, far, far, less time - because nearly everyone who had played WAR knew better to get attached to EA's latest bastard-child game.

*coughs and clears her throat*

Perhaps a compromise. How about an auto-highest level buffed SC, maybe we could make an add-on that can save our renown/career point allocations for quick reloading at the beginning of said SC to achieve our desired customizations. That way those of us who have no interest in the PvE aspects can enjoy the higher level fighting we came back for. There would likely be an initial lag time in fixes for those wanting PvE related content while the abilities were fixed (though if it is true that it's relatively easy to fix the T2 and T3 class abilities, then perhaps less time than I would have assumed,) and once the class stuff was working (and I am talking basics; abilities & RR/Career points, with base stats and armor/weapon values) the devs go back to working on the bottom up path and fixing all the other accouterments; maps, quests, crafting, medallions, ToK, etc. The PvE camps who experienced initial lag, would ultimately benefit from having the class abilities 1-40 all fixed, tested, and waiting for them, plus we'd get an influx of players from the "waiting for 80/100 camp." I think those players would also participate in lower Tier events as well, which means more fun for everyone across the board.


Finally as clarification; I do not think ANYONE has in any way, shape, or form, even hinted that the Devs don't know what they are doing. I also disagree there is some set-in-stone plan of action - it seems to me that the Devs have been open to suggestions from us players as to what we want fixed next. The Devs have every right, and my full support, to fix **** in whatever path they want/need/desire, that, however, should not preclude me, nor anyone else, from suggesting alternative pathways [in a polite manner] - I especially do not want any of the suggestions in here to be construed as ANY kind of "ungratefulness" for what our volunteer Devs have done, are doing, or will ultimately decide do.

[Grolar]

While this topic has good intentions, its well known the team probably won't be going this route. Personally it makes little sense for some of the reasons already pointed out.
Abilities and stats are by far the most important part of the foundation for this game, as its primary purpose is RvR. The areas and loot can come along for the ride.

T4 is a distant last place for me since this community needs to grow before any of that matters.