So.. time to fix the WL?

[Gobtar]

You realise mara is competing still in t3 without its crit damage tactic right?

Same with Slayers. In tier 4 WLs are the weakest of the order MDPS, maybe incoming healdebuff isn't the answer, but my point is that if you say that x makes you OP, when there are examples of x not making you OP or not even a factor in your OP-ness then well you need to readdress your assertion. We can't have a serious conversation about marauders getting nerfed for reasons, when BWs have just as much reason to be nerfed and probably never will. The irony is that alot of BWs don't even bother with their incoming heal debuff, cause they don't need it.

I do agree with you Toldavf, in the sense that now is not really the time to talk about balancing classes...not until T4 is released.

[Penril]

I just came to check if Magus are getting a nerf.

[Coryphaus]

just no. why do ppl who never played a specific class feel like they got any idea about what nerf/buff is needed.

as you already said yourself WL is a burst class! PF is fine as it is and that's due to that fact. he doesnt need more burst without requirements. that is simply non sense and a unnecessary buff which would lead into the wrong direction. mrd is different and was never about burst that's why it is okay to have no requirement on MA! there is other **** which makes him what it is. both modifiers fits to the class design and shouldnt be touched

ah makes sense, i see your point

[bloodi]

. The irony is that alot of BWs don't even bother with their incoming heal debuff, cause they don't need it.
.

Also because its kinda ****.

I run it in immo but mostly because i am solo 90% of the time, otherwise its by far the worst healdebuff in the game.

Its also quite clunky when you rely on a specific rotation to burst people down and you almost gotta open with it which would make most people run or call for a guard and everything gets ruined.

[Toldavf]

You realise mara is competing still in t3 without its crit damage tactic right?

Same with Slayers. In tier 4 WLs are the weakest of the order MDPS, maybe incoming healdebuff isn't the answer, but my point is that if you say that x makes you OP, when there are examples of x not making you OP or not even a factor in your OP-ness then well you need to readdress your assertion. We can't have a serious conversation about marauders getting nerfed for reasons, when BWs have just as much reason to be nerfed and probably never will. The irony is that alot of BWs don't even bother with their incoming heal debuff, cause they don't need it.

I do agree with you Toldavf, in the sense that now is not really the time to talk about balancing classes...not until T4 is released.

Slayers never really needed the crit damage tactic though their base damage is enough

That said the numbers while highly situational are hilarious.

[Korhill]

Something i would change for the WL once we are in t4 are the pve tactics. But than again this should be considered for other classes aswell.
I mean the tactic stalker and threatening distraction are just lols

[Bretin]

even tho you already disgraced yourself like crazy when you gave me a reason to edit my signature i will try to go through your post. maybe you're willing to learn and able see what you're doing.

In tier 4 WLs are the weakest of the order MDPS, maybe incoming healdebuff isn't the answer, but my point is that if you say that x makes you OP, when there are examples of x not making you OP or not even a factor in your OP-ness then well you need to readdress your assertion.

why do you think so? just give me 3 arguments to provide some evidence. WL was called out to be weak in t4 when we got RR100 simply because the game changed a lot and due to the fact he relies on his pet. he still had the highest armor debuff and an insane amount of burst potential it was just worth nothing. sadly nobody was looking for high burst in a meta which was all about defense and sustain combined with retarded procs like SV. even after the SV nerf ppl went for defense over offense and were running TB combined with an armor value which was beyond good and bad. the pressure was created by sustained dmg and therefor the WL had to compete with the slayer, the best class when it comes to sustained dmg. the WL suffered from his class design (high mobility & burst) and that's why he was called out weak even tho he could always do decent, just not as good as a slayer. in RoR we don't have TB and we don't get RR100. when we will see t4 WL will remain as good as he is right now. his pounce was buffed and thanks to that and the fact that we won't have those retarded defense meta again you can choose the WL any time over the slayer and combine it with a class who provides an incoming healdebuff. if you now would give him the healdebuff you were asking for, you should realize how broken that would become.

i'm not going into the comparison with BW / SW. you should see yourself how you failed there when you look at the classes.

We can't have a serious conversation about marauders getting nerfed for reasons, when BWs have just as much reason to be nerfed and probably never will.

you should really start to look at the marauder and what you're talking about. i'm speechless again.

The irony is that alot of BWs don't even bother with their incoming heal debuff, cause they don't need it.

the BW has **** ton of counterplay. the marauder doesnt have any.

[Battosai]

This is a discussion that can be saved for t4 - if need be even.
WL is a really strong and decent class - it has high burst and mobility, lot's of tools and tricks to use with the pet and has a lot of positional requirements, which makes it a really fun to play class as there's a lot of things that you need to pay attention to, if you want to play it to its maximum potential.
The downside of the WL is it's high ap costs - ( in a long fight and in PVE WL dps is propably still the highest, but that's sth else )
if you want to make guardian path more appealing, one could lower the ICD of leonine frenzy from 2 seconds to 1 second, or at least make it procc per global, thus said the nerf LF had expierienced, was justified - but a little over the top still.
There's other ways to fix the white lion - incoming healdebuff will make it over the top and sadly fotm, if the positioning requirements get removed as well, it's a lot easier to play - i dont want to sound all elitist here, but it would take some great fun away for me from the class.
what should be looked at at the moment is the pet stance bar not updating correctly, thus makeing stance dancing really not an option.
quality of life improvemt would also be to maybe swap Cull the Weak with Primal Fury, this would allow for the most basic WL burst "rotation" to be used in t3 already.
FO -> CS -> CtW
still not as important as the pet stance bar change though.

[Gobtar]

I think the crux of our conversation is this, as a destro player I am basing alot of my experiences off of post 1.4.8. I never disputed the fact that marauders are powerful, and it's going to be interesting to see what tier 4 is going to look like in the future. I guess from a game perspective, I felt that White Lions and Choppas were the weakest of their respective archetypes from the meta you described. White Lions in tier 3 as mentioned before are pretty amazing, I don't think a buff at this time is warranted, but my time playing post patch has obviously had some maddening effects on my psyche lol...

In all seriousness though, Tier 3 is not a good determining factor which classes need help. I played a marauder before 1.4.8 and one afterwards, the difference is ridiculous. I think that buffing is always a better solution to nerfing.

[tomato]

The best thing is to wait for balancing until we see how t4 works out.
T4 here will be different from live, so one should stop trying to makes balance suggestions/changes based on live server facts.