nocturnalguest wrote: Wed Apr 02, 2025 7:55 am
iPeriphery wrote: Tue Apr 01, 2025 11:31 pm
This game's combat isn't really that hard compared to most modern MMO's in the first place, so don't just assume it's a skill issue and dismiss the blatant problem that is affecting the health of the server population both short and long term. (Can't have a fun game with nobody to play against)
In this game it's clearly a gear issue and it's so obvious it's not even funny. If you've only played this game for a while, then your narrow view isn't going to be as reliable to diagnose an issue as someone looking at it with a fresher perspective will.
Just saying
Its actually way more hardcore then it looks like from your noob perspective. At the toptier timing is way more short than WoW arena, skills usage (GCD management) are way too counterintuative and dependant on exact situation, no cookie-cutter ESOlike "proc and kill", no WoW's stunlocks and tons of selfsustain and cc for each class plus options to disengage.
Support Yhani on a matter, its mostly skill and game knowledge for newcomers. Despite that tho, initial take on game being too grindy is actually true, there is no reason to keep this grind, its quite old RoR team point to keep it as is, but there is no logic behind it. However tho, if you'd be here longer and knew all the shortcuts you would know that preBiS vs. BiS is mostly a matter of comfort, for most classes it drastically changes only surviveability and balance of stats. BiS gives you more options to mess up and get away with it, but actual kill damage, true healing is more or less the same once you reach ~vanq, tanks are more dependant on gear tho, they indeed kinda struggle until BiS, but starting from warlord+ it washes away plus you can always sacrifice your assist damage for tankiness preBiS (gonna be hard to compete in e.g. 6v6 but still doable). Each class (if the person behind monitor has knowledge) can function 40+ right away (not all specs, not all options, but doing your archetype role is possible). There are options, they aint newcomers friendly, sure, but they do exist.
Know no game where team efforts would matter so much besides DAoC.
Personally, absorbing large amounts of information at once and learning fast isn't a problem for me and knowledge from other games translates a ton in terms of similarities between mechanics. (Unluckily this isn't the case for most new players).
The class kits really aren't that hard to learn if you have 2 eyes to read with (or watch YouTube Guides) and especially if you've played other more difficult MMO's. I've gotten to end game and I still don't see this game as being any more difficult or skill based than most other MMO's.
It's really not that hard at all; especially if you're in a premade with Discord..... Zerging really doesn't take any skill at all if you have someone semi competent shouting orders at you...(which is the case in most discord premades obviously). I've seen this in so many other MMO's too where people conflate that with skill.
True skill is in small scale PVP where your weaknesses are exploited much more easily because you can't hide behind your numbers; but that's a completely different conversation for another time.
I've played all the classes to 40 at this point while not all of them are past RR 41 because I spammed scenarios on some of them just to get the lvls high enough to see and learn the whole class kits because I wasn't interested in the class long term (that's how you learn how to play against every class in PVP fast; I play every class in any MMO as a shortcut way to absorb a ton of information) and have gotten my main to RR 80 and I still think that this game is not anywhere near as difficult to pick up and be good at as say ArcheAge, BDO, or Retail WoW Arena.
But that's not the point I'm trying to make and as you said "Despite that tho, initial take on game being too grindy is actually true, there is no reason to keep this grind, its quite old RoR team point to keep it as is, but there is no logic behind it." Which is what my whole point is.
There is no point in making the game's core gear loop dependent on you doing PVE or always being in a premade to be optimal to compensate for your lack of RR, CR, Gear, or Game Experience.
It should be braindead obvious at this point that this game has a hard time retaining new players because it gives the illusion of just being able to focus on PVP 24/7 in order for you to be on a competitive, level playing field during any PVP experience, especially gear wise which then feels SUPER BAD when the rug gets pulled out from under you at 16, and then even worse at 40. (The whole selling point of this game was
supposed to be PVP 24/7 gearing through PVP making you on a level playing field the whole time so you can play solely for PVP)
Let's be honest. How hard would it really be for them to make some of the higher RR required Gear and wards available at an earlier point...? That would at least be a quick and easy fix to negate SOME of the problem. It shouldn't take multiple years of feedback from the community or to think of this solution on your own.
I made this post while already being 4 months deep. What pissed me off and spurred me to make the post is that I've tried getting multiple friends to play with me and this game turns them completely off once they hit 16-30ish which is the level range they quit at because on top of the whole aforementioned power gap; either RVR was boring af because of low population leading to either no PVP happening or people just standing in the safe zone behind guards and waiting for their zerg for like 20 minutes before they come out and finally fight when they outnumber you, which makes Scenarios the more consistent and fun PVP experience.
I mean sh1t,
sometimes spamming Scenerios is better Exp and Renown than RVR due to the lack of PVP going on or the travel time in RVR taking up so much time that you woulda made more getting a few solo kills in Scenerios even if you lose.
I've played both Order and Destro to 40 on every class and it doesn't matter which faction you're on, depending on the time of day this same sh1t happens which makes RVR way way way less fun (at lvl 16-40 early RR's) and the solution shouldn't ONLY be to get in a premade Warband or premade groups to farm PVE gear.
Not to mention some newer players will want to play solo for a while until they get good enough at the game so they don't feel like a burden. (Not everyone is as nice to noobs in this community as you are lead to believe on the forums)
There are so many variables to take into account and it ONLY HELPS the player base as a whole for noobs to be able to be on a equal gear level and not be gimped at 16-40 in certain scenarios.
It's not like that will fix every single problem but at least at that point the only gap is skill and knowledge, not gear on top of all that; which makes it hard for some people to even learn wtf they are doing wrong because they just get obliterated with no chance of retaliation at all.
I've been loving this game, which is why I want to see it THRIVE. But if nothing changes then it will die a death of a thousand cuts. Idk why the people in charge would wanna shoot themselves in the dicc by not fixing these obvious issues that honestly would take WAY less work than they've been putting into other less important things that should be done after this more important issue IMO.
(Doesn't matter how many times you rebalance classes if the game is dead and there's no population to fight against the majority of the time...)
It could only benefit them in the long run by evening the playing field. I just can't fathom why someone would put so much work into recreating a game to just watch it fall into ruin by being out of touch with SUPER OBVIOUS things that NEED to be done in order for the game to succeed. I mean it's not like it's the first time these things have been said. But I guess that's what happens when you become jaded and out of touch by not playing other games as much. (Especially learning from the good things that modern games have improved upon that older MMO's lack)
(Not talking sh1t at all, I appreciate the devs but come on dude, the writing is on the walls and people have said it MANY MANY MANY times over the years.... You can see multiple forum posts throughout the years saying the same sh1t..... But God dam... how many times does it need to be said for it to be heard?
Stop being stuck in your ways if you want to survive, you need to adapt to the current MMO landscape and RN is a GREAT time to pop off because of people thirsting for a good PVP MMO and being sick of playing Classic WoW and all the other MMO's out there and this game is one that a large majority of MMO players have yet to try (Which is a good thing because it's fresh to them still) and with a ton of people getting back into MMO's due to Classic WoW and it's popularity, that actually makes it more likely that people would give an older game like this a chance because they saw the potential charm an older game can have. I am saying this all in good faith, because I genuinely care. This game has so much potential, even with just a few small changes.)
