Scenario Rework

[Kendaric]

I'm all for more balanced scenarios, but removing discordant skirmish isn't the answer in my opinion. What should be done, is disallowing queuing as a duo.

This won´t solve anything. People will still sync their queues and veterans will still farm more inexperienced players on cooldown.
Once you´re in a sc with other decent players and it ends and you queue again, you will get in the same sc again with the same players.

As mentioned above if scs are more balanced archetype wise, more balanced matches will occur.

And with everyone in same type of q, rotation of team mates and opponents you get would be fair greater.

That would still put premades and PUGs in the same scenarios if I understand the system correctly. If that's the case then it wouldn't solve anything at all.

[Gravord]

This won´t solve anything. People will still sync their queues and veterans will still farm more inexperienced players on cooldown.
Once you´re in a sc with other decent players and it ends and you queue again, you will get in the same sc again with the same players.

As mentioned above if scs are more balanced archetype wise, more balanced matches will occur.

And with everyone in same type of q, rotation of team mates and opponents you get would be fair greater.

That would still put premades and PUGs in the same scenarios if I understand the system correctly. If that's the case then it wouldn't solve anything at all.

Part of matchmaking would be to match premades against each other whenever possible and against balanced setups of high mmr players if not enough groups is present. At the same time higher mmr players would have higher chance to fill up into partial groups, but always prioritizing archetype balance as priority.
In case you were not playing much discordant lately, there are already regular premades farming pugs on daily basis, but those pugs rarely get archetype setup giving them any fighting chance at all.

[Kendaric]

In case you were not playing much discordant lately, there are already regular premades farming pugs on daily basis, but those pugs rarely get archetype setup giving them any fighting chance at all.

Yes, I'm aware of the problem (I only play discordant skirmishes) and it needs to be solved. Those guys are exploiting in my opinion, since discordant skirmishes are meant for PUGs.
Not sure how this can be solved, but the longer it goes on the greater the potential damage to the scenario scene.

[Gravord]

In case you were not playing much discordant lately, there are already regular premades farming pugs on daily basis, but those pugs rarely get archetype setup giving them any fighting chance at all.

Yes, I'm aware of the problem (I only play discordant skirmishes) and it needs to be solved. Those guys are exploiting in my opinion, since discordant skirmishes are meant for PUGs.
Not sure how this can be solved, but the longer it goes on the greater the potential damage to the scenario scene.

Issue was reported and no action was taken and wont be taken. Only viable solution left is to remove possibility of system abuse entirely. And said ppl abusing pug sc for months would have highly inflated mmr, meaning now they get to fight real premades that didnt need to hide in pug sc, id love to see how that would play out

[Bozzax]

Like the effort and that someone tries to improve the ....fest. Clap clap Gravord

The main issues to address

• Archetype balance, MDPS vs RDPS is off. Code in ranked to prevent RDPS says it all

• Balance within DPS, Engie compared to a slayer as a telling example

• Realm balance in SC context - as a healer on both I can just say all those ninja changes has seriously hurt realm balance. It s very noticable. Example the ol'WAR back bone of 6v6 Mara vs Slayer classes has been tweaked in opposite directions

• The idea that groups should be selected first. Truth is most premade avoid fights (Proof ranked etc) and quickly the stronger side premades feast on pugs an lowbies (yep high RR players drop as well as it is a designed farm fest)

• Separation with a small player base is bad (ranked solo&grp/std/pug/solo) just please no. It kind of adds to us and them in both directions

• Queue as 2,3,4,5 what does it really add, solo or 6 - testing imho would be cleaver

• Where do DEVS balance? RvR vs SC vs Soio?

• Before ability rework is done it is kind of pointless

• I like killboard but since many use it to avoid loosing side it is questionable wo delay (X hours)

[Gravord]

Like the effort and that someone tries to improve the ....fest. Clap clap Gravord

The main issues to address

• Archetype balance, MDPS vs RDPS is off. Code in ranked to prevent RDPS says it all

• Balance within DPS, Engie compared to a slayer as a telling example

• Realm balance in SC context - as a healer on both I can just say all those ninja changes has seriously hurt realm balance. It s very noticable. Example the ol'WAR back bone of 6v6 Mara vs Slayer classes has been tweaked in opposite directions

• The idea that groups should be selected first. Truth is most premade avoid fights (Proof ranked etc) and quickly the stronger side premades feast on pugs an lowbies (yep high RR players drop as well as it is a designed farm fest)

• Separation with a small player base is bad (ranked solo&grp/std/pug/solo) just please no. It kind of adds to us and them in both directions

• Queue as 2,3,4,5 what does it really add, solo or 6 - testing imho would be cleaver

• Where do DEVS balance? RvR vs SC vs Soio?

• Before ability rework is done it is kind of pointless

• I like killboard but since many use it to avoid loosing side it is questionable wo delay (X hours)

Theres no code in ranked to prevent rdps from existing, it only prevents double rdps because those kind of games are boring to play for everyone involved. Skilled rdps player does just fine in 6vs6 enviroment and the moment group sizes increase they perform good with less effort as theres more meatshield between them and the enemy.

You wont get magically all classes balanced for every type of content and delaying necessary changes to scenarios only further degrades the quality of the game.

So some premades will lose and stop q is your argument? Hows that different to what we have now when there is no attempt of matchmaking and premades feast on pugs in EVERY game?

Whole point of my proposal is to remove any form of separation. One general q for all, for all group sizes and as fair matchmaking for them all as possible. With no separation it allows matchmaking to happen quickly and more players online play scenarios more balanced games it can create.

It would happen after ability code rework is done ofc.

[Bozzax]

Ranged dps are weaker (except frozenover) they mostly lack the self supporting tools atm for sc

Premades that loose dodge yes
High rank that loose dodge dodge yes
Please don't use an algorithm that picks groups over time in queue

One queue to rule them all = Agree separation is bad

No argument from my side I think you are 5/5 for trying

Closest thing we (non devs) have to unbiased data 80+ (argubly it should have been 2Y of data tbh). Analysis and filtering (main spec tree, wins, losses etc) is also a bit lacking here as well

[ravezaar]

I dont care what u do for SC if it works for u guys, I just want to be able to still que Solo and not be vs premades all the time. Wont do Ranked after they broke Lore(just cant stomach it as a Lore nerd) but Grav has some good ideas and maybe u can get it to work just aslong as I have mine

[Toggle]

As an NA player with chronically low pop, I vote no for any matchmaking. I would rather play 3 or 4 crappy SCs in an hour than wait 30+ mins (or an hour?) for one crappy one. Out of the two situations above, at least I get to press some buttons in one of them. People aren’t going to sit around staring at a keyboard for 30+ (or more mins) to do SCs, sorry.

[Gravord]

As an NA player with chronically low pop, I vote no for any matchmaking. I would rather play 3 or 4 crappy SCs in an hour than wait 30+ mins (or an hour?) for one crappy one. Out of the two situations above, at least I get to press some buttons in one of them. People aren’t going to sit around staring at a keyboard for 30+ (or more mins) to do SCs, sorry.

But is it really worth to get fast pop to a sc where you have 11 dps and dps AM while enemy have 2 balanced parties, kills all of you under 30s and your group proceed to wait for surrender vote? Is that sc pop really worth having? Also in off peak hours, it could prioritize smaller maps and start games with just one balanced group per realm and then fill up second group over time with bonus dps etc. Without current q separation for multiple different maps at the same time and discordant it would greatly speed up pops at all times.