Balancing Order Tanks

[Eathisword]

@ppl still using the elite training talk or the parry tactic for the argument BG is def enough. should all reroll a 2h BG (which is what put BG on par with other tanks) and then compare it vs a 2h SM def channeling. Afterward fellnbad for what they have wrote and ask forgiveness.

0.o ! I play a 2H BG ! And it is defensive enough by my standard. The problem on BG isn't what it can do, its what it cannot do. It is a very selfish tank (very few buffs to allies), very little CC (1 measly AoE snare, 1 clunky punt, 1 KD tied to a shield).

Compared to 2H IB, BG does somewhat ok in damage (could use some love), it has good survivability (better than IB imo), it has better debuff than IB (IB only has armor, BG has armor, toughness, willpower, strength and wounds). But it does very poorly in buffs and CC. It is imo what makes it so bad. Can't buff, can't CC = very poor tank in group play. Debuffs are nice, but most dps can already debuff their type of damage (exception being choppa/slayer that already do lots of damage). So BG has no point.

Also, I do have a SM, and with WoDS (the channeled defense) you get around 85% parry, but you can't do anything else. BG can run 70%+ parry without channeling anything just from the +30% parry tactic and epic weapon proc (yes yes, they stack !).

[TenTonHammer]

@ppl still using the elite training talk or the parry tactic for the argument BG is def enough. should all reroll a 2h BG (which is what put BG on par with other tanks) and then compare it vs a 2h SM def channeling. Afterward fellnbad for what they have wrote and ask forgiveness.

0.o ! I play a 2H BG ! And it is defensive enough by my standard. The problem on BG isn't what it can do, its what it cannot do. It is a very selfish tank (very few buffs to allies), very little CC (1 measly AoE snare, 1 clunky punt, 1 KD tied to a shield).

Compared to 2H IB, BG does somewhat ok in damage (could use some love), it has good survivability (better than IB imo), it has better debuff than IB (IB only has armor, BG has armor, toughness, willpower, strength and wounds). But it does very poorly in buffs and CC. It is imo what makes it so bad. Can't buff, can't CC = very poor tank in group play. Debuffs are nice, but most dps can already debuff their type of damage (exception being choppa/slayer that already do lots of damage). So BG has no point.

Also, I do have a SM, and with WoDS (the channeled defense) you get around 85% parry, but you can't do anything else. BG can run 70%+ parry without channeling anything just from the +30% parry tactic and epic weapon proc (yes yes, they stack !).

And what tactic are you giving up to run that parry tactic?

And it's still only parry which means that in orvr where 2H BG is most useful, the class is still rdps fodder

[Eathisword]

@ppl still using the elite training talk or the parry tactic for the argument BG is def enough. should all reroll a 2h BG (which is what put BG on par with other tanks) and then compare it vs a 2h SM def channeling. Afterward fellnbad for what they have wrote and ask forgiveness.

0.o ! I play a 2H BG ! And it is defensive enough by my standard. The problem on BG isn't what it can do, its what it cannot do. It is a very selfish tank (very few buffs to allies), very little CC (1 measly AoE snare, 1 clunky punt, 1 KD tied to a shield).

Compared to 2H IB, BG does somewhat ok in damage (could use some love), it has good survivability (better than IB imo), it has better debuff than IB (IB only has armor, BG has armor, toughness, willpower, strength and wounds). But it does very poorly in buffs and CC. It is imo what makes it so bad. Can't buff, can't CC = very poor tank in group play. Debuffs are nice, but most dps can already debuff their type of damage (exception being choppa/slayer that already do lots of damage). So BG has no point.

Also, I do have a SM, and with WoDS (the channeled defense) you get around 85% parry, but you can't do anything else. BG can run 70%+ parry without channeling anything just from the +30% parry tactic and epic weapon proc (yes yes, they stack !).

And what tactic are you giving up to run that parry tactic?

And it's still only parry which means that in orvr where 2H BG is most useful, the class is still rdps fodder

Really ? 2H tanks are squishy in oRvR wb fighting ? Go figure. I thought my 2h IB could facetank Phalanx on his own. Guess I need to go rethink my life.

[Tesq]

With the exeption that ib is not forced into 2h as BG is

Also 30%' is a lie big as an house the meccanica will never allow even a stabile 25% and the BG is forced 2h mostly because is a debuffer and debuffer need to hit and 2h = 10% easier to hit
And loose only the KD while giving you many more options Aldo the meccanica itself with the def tactics interation kill both tour GCD economy
And tour def that are no where near to other tanks so you are both sguigsy and inefficent bit ehy Bing the worst tank in game seems not enough to Recive some love

[GodlessCrom]

With the exeption that ib is not forced into 2h as BG is

If you wanna be a MAN, then yes, you're forced to go 2h IB and cave-win your way across the Empire.

But yeah, Black Guard is in a bad place IMO, especially compared to Ironbreaker.

[Luuca]

Chosen and knights are going to have some work done on them soon anyway mate. There will be an .ab ex mode for both Chosen and Knight that will address some of the "free" utility perks of the class, toning them down to commensurate levels with other tank classes, while at the same time, changes to other, underperforming tank classes will be forthcoming to bring them up to par with their peers. Be patient.

FIFY

Nerfhammer blanket statements like this one make my skin crawl. The trap of resorting to a nerfhammer every time a class outperforms others is the same cycle of insanity we saw on live. It doesn't work. The .ab ex testing, more testing, and full client control are the recipe I'd like to see proposed. Put the Nerfhammer away please.

[Natherul]

Chosen and knights are going to have some work done on them soon anyway mate. There will be an .ab ex mode for both Chosen and Knight that will address some of the "free" utility perks of the class, toning them down to commensurate levels with other tank classes, while at the same time, changes to other, underperforming tank classes will be forthcoming to bring them up to par with their peers. Be patient.

FIFY

Nerfhammer blanket statements like this one make my skin crawl. The trap of resorting to a nerfhammer every time a class outperforms others is the same cycle of insanity we saw on live. It doesn't work. The .ab ex testing, more testing, and full client control are the recipe I'd like to see proposed. Put the Nerfhammer away please.

But it is what I meant. But right now they are performing way too well for little skill involved with the auras.

[Rebuke]

Luuca scared lolololololololol

[Luuca]

Luuca scared lolololololololol

No class deserves the nerffhammer. If you played live, you'd remember the cyclic sh tstorm of nerf nerf nerf and the agony it brought.

Also, I'm not scared. In fact, I wrote up a full proposal on "fixing" the aura system, and agree it needs to be worked on.

One last thing; Lots of people say it takes no skill to play a Chosen or KotBS, and they are right. It doesn't take any skill to play one poorly or even mediocre. We have all run into them soloing SCs. That said, it does take skill to play one well. The issue isn't the skill cap of the class, it's the utility/survivability perks that the class, and their group mates get for no effort at all.

[Specialpatrol]

Chosen and knights are going to have some work done on them soon anyway mate. They need a hit with the nerfhammer

Chosen already got nerfed to ****, how much more does it take until you people are satisfied?

So did the knight. Dirty Tricks got a 50% nerf and Destroy Confidence was simply removed, due to crying shammies.