Chapter 22 PQ general, suggestion&feedback

[Xiander]

So now that chapter 22 has been re released again i thought i make general thread for it, where players can post about their feedback if they like something or don't like something or suggestions how to improve it.

So far positive comments that i have seen:
-Content is fun to do, fights and mechanics are nice.

Negative things:
-Sometimes its hard to form warband for it, taking hours or sometimes ending up dispanding because not being able to fill every role.
-You have sometimes solos, duos or smaller groups of people tagging along with warband who is doing the most of the lifting and "leeching" some of the bags
-Players are partially clearing first stage to get contribution, so when public quest is cleared they get potentially bag

My personal thoughts:
Personally i find public quests are something that you can casually clear, be it new or older veteran player who is gearing new character be it either solo or with smaller group and make some kind of character progression when it comes to gear (Now you could also do dungeon but problem is that you only get offspec sets from dungeons, and maybe you don't want to do dungeons?)
So i've been wondering do the chapter 22 public quests have too high requirements for gear sets that you end up replacing? First you need to form full warband, then you need to tell everyone tactics and then you need to clear each chapter eight (8) times to get everyone geared with onslaught, and what i have gathered clearing public quest takes around 30 minutes (add 5 minutes more depending if you wipe or not), so 4 hours per chapter so 12 hours total and then you add the time it takes to form the warband which can take hours and several days or specific time.

I do agree that game needs similar content like the current chapter 22 (raid content what other MMOs have) which is fun to do with 24-man warbands but maybe something like this could be saved for something like PvE city and keep the public quests (ch 22 is public quest) something that you can casually do since i believe onslaught set would be perfect stepping stone for oRvR/Scenarios if you are someone who likes to public quests and need main role gear from PvE, since ruin set at current state is really bad.

So, whats your thoughts about the new/current chapter 22?

[reyaloran]

If the 24 man raids were to be moved to an instanced thing like you suggested then onslaught would likely move with it. The main reason its able to be a good set is that its not trivial to obtain.

[Rydiak]

I enjoyed the new ch22 encounters. I thought the fights were dynamic, well-thought out, and not simply just gear or number checks. I've mentioned it before but the only issue I've seen is with the aggro swapping required in the Empire PQs, but that isn't necessarily about the encounter itself and more about aggro in general in RoR.

As far as "leechers" go, I don't think that a player who is not in the warband should automatically be excluded from the possibility of loot. Conversely, I don't think that a player who is in the warband should automatically be awarded loot. I believe that a player's contribution should be worth rewarding regardless of the size of their party.

Now an argument can be made that the loot dice roll is too impactful or "swingy" compared to the value provided by a contribution medal, but again I think that is something more about the general game instead. If gold medal contribution gives 750, and a loot dice roll is 1-1000, then maybe the dice roll should be reduced to 1-750. Regardless, I do think it is important to have some form of RNG in place that allows for consistently under-contributing players (e.g. someone in lower-tier gear compared to their peers at the PQ) to have an opportunity to receive loot.

[reyaloran]

I enjoyed the new ch22 encounters. I thought the fights were dynamic, well-thought out, and not simply just gear or number checks. I've mentioned it before but the only issue I've seen is with the aggro swapping required in the Empire PQs, but that isn't necessarily about the encounter itself and more about aggro in general in RoR.

As far as "leechers" go, I don't think that a player who is not in the warband should automatically be excluded from the possibility of loot. Conversely, I don't think that a player who is in the warband should automatically be awarded loot. I believe that a player's contribution should be worth rewarding regardless of the size of their party.

Now an argument can be made that the loot dice roll is too impactful or "swingy" compared to the value provided by a contribution medal, but again I think that is something more about the general game instead. If gold medal contribution gives 750, and a loot dice roll is 1-1000, then maybe the dice roll should be reduced to 1-750. Regardless, I do think it is important to have some form of RNG in place that allows for consistently under-contributing players (e.g. someone in lower-tier gear compared to their peers at the PQ) to have an opportunity to receive loot.

That would be alleviated by forcing it to be done by a wb. Every ch22 I have run as a lead or as support for another lead has stated to opt out of gold if you don't need the gear. The issue is when a leech then takes a gold bag that could have gone to someone who needed it.

[Rydiak]

I don't think the solution to Onslaught gear is moving the area to an instance. If anything, other PvE "raid" encounters should be made using that design. Also, I don't think it is fair to automatically assume that a solo player doesn't need the gear either. It could be someone who couldn't get into the warband but still wants to participate in the content for rewards.

[Darizz]

Lets do a recap from yesterdays discord.

WB lead/players: solo players are in my (PQ)walls, stealing my loot!

Players inside WB = “Contributing”
Players outside WB = “Leeching”

Players outside WB, “leeching”, should be:
• Blocked from loot by making ch22 be a safe space for WB.
• Shamed into conforming to the WB players arbitrary rules.
• Blacklisted from joining any future groups.

The level of gate keeping is astounding...

This made me furious, how on earth can people have such low brow takes?
You think some minor stat change in the game is the reason people don’t stick around? More than attitudes like this?

How’s this for a hot take, make it rewarding, and more important fun for everyone involved? Scale number of bags to all participants… The more the merrier… enable proximity voice chat inside PQ… let there be mayhem…...burn it to the ground!…... Wouldn't that be fun public event? Or is the gate keeping more important?

As for all content, effort without reliable reward is a terrible design, a quest for clearing all PQ’s once should yield the gear set. Let the random drops be tradegoods, RNG for gear drops is just soul crushing.

If gate keeping bags is important I would vote for a change that if someone fails a single mechanic, no one gets bags.

I was looking forward checking out the ch22 someday, but from what I read it just seems like a deep saltmine.

[Brizio]

Solution is pretty simple. Make it easier and reduce the need of players. 24 is more player then what we have in RVR in NA time

[reyaloran]

Lets do a recap from yesterdays discord.

WB lead/players: solo players are in my (PQ)walls, stealing my loot!

Players inside WB = “Contributing”
Players outside WB = “Leeching”

Players outside WB, “leeching”, should be:
• Blocked from loot by making ch22 be a safe space for WB.
• Shamed into conforming to the WB players arbitrary rules.
• Blacklisted from joining any future groups.

The level of gate keeping is astounding...

This made me furious, how on earth can people have such low brow takes?
You think some minor stat change in the game is the reason people don’t stick around? More than attitudes like this?

How’s this for a hot take, make it rewarding, and more important fun for everyone involved? Scale number of bags to all participants… The more the merrier… enable proximity voice chat inside PQ… let there be mayhem…...burn it to the ground!…... Wouldn't that be fun public event? Or is the gate keeping more important?

As for all content, effort without reliable reward is a terrible design, a quest for clearing all PQ’s once should yield the gear set. Let the random drops be tradegoods, RNG for gear drops is just soul crushing.

If gate keeping bags is important I would vote for a change that if someone fails a single mechanic, no one gets bags.

I was looking forward checking out the ch22 someday, but from what I read it just seems like a deep saltmine.

If you think that groups asking that the effort that we put in to make it possible to do the content in the first place is protected from people walking in killing a couple mobs is gate keeping then yes we will gatekeep. Ch22 hard PQs were designed for years to be WB only content. Even in their easiest form you still needed a over geared 6 man to beat it and that was one that was badly tuned. The fact that you see "we took the time to group up to do this content please stop taking the rewards for doing so" as an arbitrary rule is astounding.

[Darizz]

If you think that groups asking that the effort that we put in to make it possible to do the content in the first place is protected from people walking in killing a couple mobs is gate keeping then yes we will gatekeep. Ch22 hard PQs were designed for years to be WB only content. Even in their easiest form you still needed a over geared 6 man to beat it and that was one that was badly tuned. The fact that you see "we took the time to group up to do this content please stop taking the rewards for doing so" as an arbitrary rule is astounding.

I would call rules not determined by the game (in this case, “contribution”) to be arbitrary yes, it may not be the right word, english is not my first language.

So if I got you right, it is more important for you that people that, according to you, do not contribute by being inside the warband should get nothing? Even if there could be a system that had little to no effect on on the loot gained by the WB? If that is the case...wow...just wow…

Badly tuned encounter? Is the solution to punish other players? Or tune the encounter?
Maybe the devs don’t think its badly tuned? maybe its just that people turn up in pvp gear/specc and not having a clue about pve? I don’t know, should some solo player be on the short stick of that problem?

What about if there comes a time when you have 25 ppl online who are up to do some ch22? Better luck next time nr25? no fun allowed…

As to leeching, I would make a pretty big bet that everyone inside the warband is not some sweaty E-sports ready pro gamer juiced up on preworkout mixed with monster drink, but that you could find more than one half-afk - catvideo watching - leisurely tapping whatever the button the group heal/aoe damage/challenge is. Are they entitled to bags just as some maximum effort player?

[jafh123]

If contribution is based on how much a player has actually contributed to completing the PUBLIC quest according to the data the game uses to determine actual contribution, then this is the fairer system, as it is completely objective and rewards players for what they actually do, not for who they are friends with.

This is probably what mythic intended when they designed public quests. These quests are, by nature, PUBLIC, so there can be no "leeching", as everyone's contribution is taken into account and rewarded accordingly.

The random factor of the final roll was probably added to remind us that even though randomness or freedom (an effect without a cause) are not real, humans can't know every factor at play at any given moment, so, in the end it may seem that all is dependant on the will (not Schopenhauer's WILL) of the gods.

And remember, Justice is (and should be) blind.