The xrealm solution

[navis]

Why would it be...?

Because the majority of people value their time and have lives. It's not worth it to those people to spend that much extra time to use multiple accounts.

It's not a majority of people that would have a second account, but there is a significant number of people with more than one. Particularly when it comes to the more hardcore and influential players in mass RvR. Those 16 players that appear simultaneously in a keep, they're the ones that have multiple accounts most of the time. Those are the people that need to be addressed, and being able to freely use multiple accounts would allow them to ignore most solutions we could bring right now. The VPN market is well saturated with free services, which blocks a second avenue of approach as well.

Implementing an xrealm 'solution' requires it to:
1. Not harm or hinder the majority of the population.
2. Actually be effective towards the groups who would abuse it in the first place.

We can't force an account to declare order or destro, it would harm the majority of people that have chars on both sides, but do not xrealm.
We can't lock an account to order or destro based on their gameplay choices, as those who would xrealm can easily bypass the restriction at this time.

I don't believe adding a buff would offend any of those requisites. When considering that if something like this was implemented we would subsequently see players adapting to it.
Also, making the 'declaration' more apparant so as one could not mistakenly declare a realm side. Such as being in actual RvR area and flagged. (perhaps a 2 minute safety buffer to port out) Also making the maximum time frame be around 1 hour (depending on what kind of curve is used).
I find it hard to find reasons not to implement it on the basis of 'low hanging fruit' type of feature/implementation
@dabbart - yes ok. it could open up new roads for banning and such. it is still worth implementing IMHO. It doesn't necessarily mean that there will also be change to managment banning practices.
thx

[dwar]

Actually I would like to see a statistic that is proof of xrealming being such an issue. I'm not saying it isn' t but this is mostly based on a "gutfeeling" of players not numbers.

@devs / databasee
Is it possible to generate such a statistic? can'T be that hard..

After the numbers add up to the feeling, one might think about solutions.

[wargrimnir]

Actually I would like to see a statistic that is proof of xrealming being such an issue. I'm not saying it isn' t but this is mostly based on a "gutfeeling" of players not nuumbers.

@devs / databasee
Is it possible to generate such a statistic? can'T be that hard..

After the numbers add up to the feeling, one might think about solutions.

It's something that needs to be tracked realtime, and we don't have a great system for that. I've done it manually a couple times. Thing is, we have two major population centers, and the prime time dips between them. That leaves for some significant fluctuation possibilities.

Last night (maybe the night before?) I was tracking the TM population.
Destro 120, Order 100. Destro pushed a ram up to the Order keep, got pushed out, ram was destroyed. Order 6-man groups had snatched the BO's from behind them, ranked their keep up and got the doors repaired.

Destro 90, Order 90. With even numbers, Order rallied around teh BO's, kept Destro from taking them, and ran supplies.

Destro 70, Order 90.
Order spawns their ram and rallies the group at the keep. Marches straight to Destro's gates and starts hammering away. Many Destro are still in the keep, and they still had 1-star left. Dropping the front gate was no problem, but Destro funnel game is stronk, and the posterns were not unlocked yet. Once that start decayed, Order was able to push in from the sides and force Destro back into the keep.

Destro 50, Order 90.
During the inner keep fight, more Destro were logging off. After the lord dropped, another large chunk of them logged off. At this point they've been totally demoralized and did not return to the lake but to take their closest BO one time before the zone flipped.

Destro 40, Order 60.
By the time the next zone started up, almost a third of Order logged off.


This is natural progression of demoralizing your enemy and winning the zone. What he have at the beginning of EU prime is a large fluctuating population where new people log on and off all day long. The numbers generally trend up, and people play what they want to play. It's toward the second half of NA prime, which is quite late for EU, where you start to see things like this happen. That large chunk of Destro that gave up after they failed at the keep push were likely EU. The Order sticking around to make the numbers lopsided were the victors of the battle who still had high morale and wanted to finish the zone.

During the second keep battle, once the funnel was collapsed and Order made their way into the second half of the keep, you saw even more Destro logoff because they were now hopeless to stop the 'Order Zerg', despite the fact most of them would be logging soon as well. There's an attrition effect in play here where NA Destro were logging off because of the perception that Order would maintain this number advantage throughout the night.

After the zone flipped, and the remaining Order EU logged out for the night, the remaining NA forces were still on high morale, where the Destro NA forces had already given up and moved on to something else.

If you attribute ANY of these things to xrealming, you're doing yourself a disservice, and need to rethink the perspective of player psychology as an impact to RvR games. There isn't much we can do to reinforce a losing realm without being vastly unfair to the winning realm. You guys just literally need to pull it together and fight on.

[dwar]

It's something that needs to be tracked realtime, and we don't have a great system for that. I've done it manually a couple times. Thing is, we have two major population centers, and the prime time dips between them. That leaves for some significant fluctuation possibilities.
.. ..... .... ...on.

Thanks for the quick reply..

It's not about how many ppl log off or on after losing/winning a zone/whatever.. It's more about how quickly and for how long do the switch their destru to order chars, or? Sure the demoralisation is a thing but this has only to do with xrealming, if the player then logs the winning(opportune in case of aao) side and does not get his supper or go to bed...

xrealm = losing zone/hard zerg/whatever gets players to log + switch side + gettin pvp flagged (some might only craft)

even then its more an estimation but still more valid then the guts of losing(thats when topic pops up mostly!) players

maybe I define xrealming diffrent ...


Edit:At the moment is the right time to do such a validation since we have over 3 tiers only one active zone

[wargrimnir]

It's something that needs to be tracked realtime, and we don't have a great system for that. I've done it manually a couple times. Thing is, we have two major population centers, and the prime time dips between them. That leaves for some significant fluctuation possibilities.
.. ..... .... ...on.

Thanks for the quick reply..

It's not about how many ppl log off or on after losing/winning a zone/whatever.. It's more about how quickly and for how long do the switch their destru to order chars, or? Sure the demoralisation is a thing but this has only to do with xrealming, if the player then logs the winning(opportune in case of aao) side and does not get his supper or go to bed...

xrealm = losing zone/hard zerg/whatever gets players to log + switch side + gettin pvp flagged (some might only craft)

even then its more an estimation but still more valid then the guts of losing(thats when topic pops up mostly!) players

maybe I define xrealming diffrent ...

If they were switching sides you would see one sides population go UP while the other side went DOWN. Generally the winning side tends to RETAIN their population, while the losers log off at a faster rate.

[dwar]

It's something that needs to be tracked realtime, and we don't have a great system for that. I've done it manually a couple times. Thing is, we have two major population centers, and the prime time dips between them. That leaves for some significant fluctuation possibilities.
.. ..... .... ...on.

Thanks for the quick reply..

It's not about how many ppl log off or on after losing/winning a zone/whatever.. It's more about how quickly and for how long do the switch their destru to order chars, or? Sure the demoralisation is a thing but this has only to do with xrealming, if the player then logs the winning(opportune in case of aao) side and does not get his supper or go to bed...

xrealm = losing zone/hard zerg/whatever gets players to log + switch side + gettin pvp flagged (some might only craft)

even then its more an estimation but still more valid then the guts of losing(thats when topic pops up mostly!) players

maybe I define xrealming diffrent ...

If they were switching sides you would see one sides population go UP while the other side went DOWN. Generally the winning side tends to RETAIN their population, while the losers log off at a faster rate.

Might still be coincidence imo .. like dinertime in GMT just ended and all logs for a side are first of the day(only trying to minimalize the odds)

[wargrimnir]

Everyone doesn't log though. The thing you're missing is that you're only going to log if you have a reason to. If you're in the middle of winning a zone, the place you live on better be literally in flames before you give up on a zone.

If you're already losing, finding another distraction to waste your time with is almost preferable to waiting it out, moreso considering you get offline bags delivered to your mail if your contribution+roll is good enough. Some people fight it out to the bitter end, no matter what. They're the ones that make RvR worth doing at all, imo. They're usually tough as nails bittervets running the deadly premade groups that can handle 6v24 anyway.

[dwar]

Everyone doesn't log though. The thing you're missing is that you're only going to log if you have a reason to. If you're in the middle of winning a zone, the place you live on better be literally in flames before you give up on a zone.

If you're already losing, finding another distraction to waste your time with is almost preferable to waiting it out, moreso considering you get offline bags delivered to your mail if you contribution+roll are good enough. Some people fight it out to the bitter end, no matter what. They're the ones that make RvR worth doing at all, imo. They're usually tough as nails bittervets running the deadly premade groups that can handle 6v24 anyway.

Maybe we misunderstand eachother..
For me,. if you simply log off is not the here discussed issue or? .. X-realming "Oh my side isnt winning atm, well then I log my otherside toon and get the free renown!"

For some xrealming starts with having charakters on both sides... is there somewhere an official definition?

[wargrimnir]

Everyone doesn't log though. The thing you're missing is that you're only going to log if you have a reason to. If you're in the middle of winning a zone, the place you live on better be literally in flames before you give up on a zone.

If you're already losing, finding another distraction to waste your time with is almost preferable to waiting it out, moreso considering you get offline bags delivered to your mail if you contribution+roll are good enough. Some people fight it out to the bitter end, no matter what. They're the ones that make RvR worth doing at all, imo. They're usually tough as nails bittervets running the deadly premade groups that can handle 6v24 anyway.

Maybe we misunderstand eachother..
For me,. if you simply log off is not the here discussed issue or? .. X-realming "Oh my side isnt winning atm, well then I log my otherside toon and get the free renown!"

For some xrealming starts with having charakters on both sides... is there somewhere an official definition?

Right, so why do you think your version of it actually happens to any significant degree? I've demonstrated the observations I've made in the past with a specific case from the past couple of days.

Or were you asking me to provide data to prove your theory correct? It's not there bud.

[dwar]

Everyone doesn't log though. The thing you're missing is that you're only going to log if you have a reason to. If you're in the middle of winning a zone, the place you live on better be literally in flames before you give up on a zone.

If you're already losing, finding another distraction to waste your time with is almost preferable to waiting it out, moreso considering you get offline bags delivered to your mail if you contribution+roll are good enough. Some people fight it out to the bitter end, no matter what. They're the ones that make RvR worth doing at all, imo. They're usually tough as nails bittervets running the deadly premade groups that can handle 6v24 anyway.

Maybe we misunderstand eachother..
For me,. if you simply log off is not the here discussed issue or? .. X-realming "Oh my side isnt winning atm, well then I log my otherside toon and get the free renown!"

For some xrealming starts with having charakters on both sides... is there somewhere an official definition?

Right, so why do you think your version of it actually happens to any significant degree? I've demonstrated the observations I've made in the past with a specific case from the past couple of days.

Or were you asking me to provide data to prove your theory correct? It's not there bud.

I have no theory at all and honestly I dont care much about the issue.. but people seem to have theories and worries. Thats why I asked for data to make at least a statement(
It happens massivly or there are maybe 10 players doing that), so the constant whine surrounding the topic could end or is justified.

Hard to argue numbers