Mdps talismans WS vs. Str vs. Armor???

[TenTonHammer]

You have brute force and the what ever the slayer equivalent of dont wanna liv for eva

on my choppa with full dueilst with some 11-13 str tallies atm i have 950 str soft cap your str then gear defensive sets, parry renown and WS

[Lileldys]

Slayer with armour tactic is the hardest to kill imo out of all the 3 order MDPS once they drop rage. My crappy geared slayer sits around 3k armour iirc(dev/stalker/potion/tactic).

WH with Mara armour debuff(around 1400) is at 300 armour, WL at 1000 armour, and Slayer at 1600 armour with tactic(44armour=1%phys mitig, not accounting WS). If you want extra defences, grab the 3pc jewellery set with 210armour on it, which also features a ton of resists.

When fighting premade vs premade, its all about dealing with pressure. If you can't take the pressure, you are then forced to kite or die. Armour is a great way to deal with that pressure from most comps, but you sacrifice damage to gain this. Shatter Limbs is also one of the best pressure relievers in-game making slayer the best MDPS along with it's high armour.

IMO:
1) Strength for fighting General Premades or PUGs.
2) WS is strong vs armour stacking teams, but you'll generally be want to play with a WL for his armour debuff where you can use STR.(Triple Tank teams, or 2tanks/4med-armour without WL)
3) Armour if you can't take pressure from MDPS when guarded(You'll die regardless if no guard with full armour stack)

Generally, you'll be forcing pressure on a dps class first. STR will come out on top here generally, but if your team wants to focus a tank first, WS will come out ahead.

Before anyone says something about hurrdurr focusing tanks, focusing tanks will either force the other tank to guard the tank, forcing dps to be unguarded, or you'll kill the tank, forcing the team to loose access guard/challenge/CC/morales until he is back up.

Ignore what anyone says about WS parry, it's countered by high strength, and the obvious being hit from behind.

Best mix/max tip is find a good guard + good 2nd dps + good healers. You won't get close to mix/max without these on any dps class.

[Lileldys]

You have brute force and the what ever the slayer equivalent of dont wanna liv for eva

on my choppa with full dueilst with some 11-13 str tallies atm i have 950 str soft cap your str then gear defensive sets, parry renown and WS

Armour tactic>Brute Force.
These tactics aren't as great as they seem when in high tier armour, and I only run these tactics when looking for loldps on pugs. Jagged edge might be more dps than Brute Force atm, but I haven't tested.

You should use Red goes fasta! on choppa over Brute Force. Especially fighting WP as they will cleanse out your HD so fast, and will allow you to ignore Shatter Limbs. This tactic is so rarely used, and I don't know why as it's so strong.
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=chp ... 4:;0:0:0:0:
These tactics are all probably stronger than Brute Force any day.

[TenTonHammer]

Eh that not my style i prefer uviveablity on my choppa hence i run this
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=chp ... 9:;0:0:0:0:

defensive sets and da bigget for 7K hp

plus stat tactics have their effectiveness fall off in higher tiers, once better sets come in espically say sov and we are ability to consistently soft cap str BF can be replace by flanking

INC HD on WP's is not a big issue when you have maras

running in red on a WP vs a competent grp is not realistic

[Neflak]

Softcap str, then the rest you've got to ws. There's no extra logic in here.

Sounds great in theory, in full ruin with full str talismans and 4 out of 5 (+72 strength) strength renown abilities I am sitting @ 993 (+18 str talis in all armor/weapon slots) with full ruin gear and epic quest weapons. This also includes my +160 and +120 str tactic. I am just going to assume that soft cap str and 50% armor pen aren't really feasible until high RR and close to BiS gear atm (full merc+ Dwarf inf axe + SC axe)

[Gachimuchi]

Softcap str, then the rest you've got to ws. There's no extra logic in here.

This thread shoulda ended here. Too many people on these forums thinking they can reinvent the wheel. Slayer already has two tactics that increase STR which are both mandatory because unless your're 2H slayer(and nobody does 2H slayer except for me lol) there isn't much else to run. Softcapping STR is pretty easy after that and you dump your remaining into Weaponskill. Y

ou should be playing with an armor debuff of some kind on whatever target you're hitting and on most clothies/med armor that should negate enough to the point they're naked with only about 40% armor penetration. With DoK/WP or Tanks you'll need a tank M1 on top of that and its the same deal. If you for some reason decided on not getting an extra 100-200 str to get to softcap from mercenary gear and your two tactics + potion you'd just be gimping yourself on damage.

[Gerv]

Completely agree with above, while as a solo pug a weapon skill set may be great because you can not rely on others to be with you, in a group situation, generally a WL or a dps tank can help out. However unorthodox groups do exist but the merc gear and pot will make a difference.

[Neflak]

Thanks everybody who responded in the thread, I always appreciate hearing the different points of view, even if it is black and white to some people.

[Annaise16]

The first table in the link shows the percentage increase in damage to different armor values if you increase your toon's armor penetration by 10%. This is for level 40 toons. Armor penetration is written as a decimal value in the top row: 0.3 represents 30% penetration, etc.

http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee4 ... 64rqgz.jpg

For example, if your target has 1500 armor, increasing your armor penetration from 30% to 40% will increase your damage by 4.5%. Against 3000 armor, increasing your armor penetration from 40% to 50% will increase the damage by 11.5%.

At level 40, it requires about 140 points of weapon skill to increase armor penetration by 10%. You can use the paper doll to check the exact value. (Too lazy to log on and check it myself.)

For comparison, a 140-point increase in strength will increase damage by about 7% against toons with 200 toughness. It will provide larger percentage increases against toons with higher toughness values.

Appendix
The percentage values in the first table were worked out using the following formula:

(1- (0.9 - armor penetration) x armor value /4400) / (1 - (1 - armor penetration) x armor value / 4400)

where armor penetration is the decimal value at the top of each column.

[Bozzax]

Str counts for avoidance that is why you max it first. Having your snare,hd,kd not being avoided is what counts.