[Guard Rework] A suggestion to better balance RvR and SCs.

[Luicetarro]

Autopreload GES to any tank serversided.
IF they are using guard, they WILL see they are out of range.

But changing a system, because randoms aren't willing to play their class, as it would be most beneficial?

[Crenshaw]

Sounds just like me :p

I agree with Tankbeardz though. Silly idea. In premades, your dps knows what he's doing, so tank follows him.

Just reverse the logic.

In pug scens... you are the good dps... Ask for guard. If the tank is out of guard range : RUN to him. And then FOLLOW the tank. Assist him. Easiest way to go, make him be better by being an awesome dps with some awareness When he sees how awesome guard is, learn the range, etc. he can better himself because of you !

To conclude, (imagine John Oliver's voice...) leave me my freedom to be a bad tank ! Tanks are people too ! Hear me ? Tanks are people. They have the right to choose... #prochoice4life #focusoffenseftw

Oh boy this is wrong on so many levels. Dont forget that you are still tank and can perform that role good with 2h. Goin glass cannon, useing aoe aura or focused offense is viable when you premade with friend for lols, going pug with this crap is hurting your team and you wont even use full potential of dps spec.

Every tanks PRIMARY role is to guard, that includes 2h tanks. I main 2h kotbs and first thing to do on joing scen is looking for good mdps to guard. When fight occurs you dont just assist bot or expect him to be same, you need to switch guards depending on situation, use your utility to help group, when heal is in trouble you rush to him etc.

Guys, people who top dmg charts on tanks are most likely douches. Seen that been there, i also used to be fixed on doing numbers but come on, you should grow up from this and use your class to full potential: guarding every team member when necessary, adding cc and utility to control fight, be able to push forward and sustain considerable damage. Your last thing to do is to assist melee or go alone in rampage.

PS. Dont forget that heal casted on 2h tank is heal that potentialy could be casted on someone more squishy. Dont be duches.

EDIT: On second tought, it was only irony with dps following tank, wasnt it?

[Luicetarro]

In pug scens... you are the good dps... Ask for guard. If the tank is out of guard range : RUN to him. And then FOLLOW the tank. Assist him. Easiest way to go, make him be better by being an awesome dps with some awareness When he sees how awesome guard is, learn the range, etc. he can better himself because of you !

Following a tank on rampage, just to stay in guardrange won't make him a better tank. That tank won't learn, because that one tank most likely won't notice any difference. He won't know guard did make any difference.
Especially since he didn't have to do anything than to press one button on request. Rest did the mdps in that idea.

You might pull off a better overall performance because of your tactic, but won't change a thing unless you manage to get that tank into a /msg-convo about what did the trick after the Scen.

[sablasni]

"When I DO get guard, that tank is more often running around byhimself NOT trying to stick by his "guard-ee"."

u should suggest that guard range should be 500 ft

anyways guard works fine only reason when it may seem OP is when u pug against premade and u cant kill anything even be it a squishy slayer/choppa

[DefinitelyNotWingz]

After all it is solo queue.
Meaning that some dps aswell as tanks are just useless to the team. No need to guard a stereotypical lvl 33 WH or expect guard from a fo slotting hurrdurr 2h BO.

One good attempt to solve this issue is an elo system but RoR doesnt have the population for this.
Offering help with guides and ingame advisers might work for a small grp of people that actually want to improve.
But implementing changes that have an impact on the overall balance/archetype balance is most certainly not the way to go.

[Whiteork]

The initial idea here was to make it more rewarding to give guard.

Basically that sounds like a fair thing.
But I think it will only make PremadeGroups even stronger because they guard and PickUPGroups will not benefit because a noob tank still stays a noob tank, even if you boost his classes potential.

And @Focused Offense: There is no debate on that tactic. It is **** and will be your death. Better to logg of than use focused offense.

[Kabaal]

Simply having mitigation numbers show on the scoreboard would be enough to encourage more people to use tanks properly.

[peterthepan3]

SnB tanks already deal ZERO damage, so they wont matter frankly. Its the 2H Tanks that can deal semi damage but now to max their damage they are forced to guard which benefits EVERYONE.

.

not really true when a good BO/SM can deal 90% of their DPS even in SNB spec =P

I think this problem is inherent to most 2h tanks (lack of survivability, htl, and tools to offer the group). 2h looks cooler, and so a lot of pugs/new players play 2h unaware of their primary role as tank.

[th3gatekeeper]

Simply having mitigation numbers show on the scoreboard would be enough to encourage more people to use tanks properly.

You dont read the forums much do you... This has been suggested multiple times and multiple times the DEVs have said they cant change what numbers show on the scoreboard. Also, mitigation numbers wont show anything except block/dodge/parry etc are the only stats that get tracked, and this has no impact or relevance to guarding.

Look, this entire thread is focused on the guard problem. I see it on destro and order side both. The vast majority of tanks in this game DONT want to guard any one. The only ones that do, are usually premade groups, or SNB tanks which are the minority from my experience.

People say "educate" them, this is bullshit frankly. Ive tried over and over and over. Doesnt work, people tell you to shut up, that "dps is utility and they are pressuring healers" ive heard it all.

So you have to address why people are doing what they are doing to fix the behaviour. Tanks that dont guard, dont guard because they care about 1 thing: Damage. They dont guard because they dont want to have to stay in guard range of someboday - because they want to deal damage, not follow someone around.

They dont guard because they take more damage, which is going to hurt their ability to deal damage. They dont guard because they want to see bigger numbers and dont build for tankiness via stacking higher parry/dodge/disrupt but will use renown on strength instead or crit... So they (again) dont guard because they cant take a beating... so they dont guard because they will die very quickly.

So how can we change this behavior? I agree that building in some add on into the game might help. I use Enemy and have a HUGE "blue/red" shield on my screen when I am within guard range or not of a target. Guess what though.... While this helps educate players on guard range (ive met several tanks that didnt even realize guard had a range btw) it DOESNT address the above issues....

So how can we address the issue of players not wanting to use guard. Well, the solution to me seems simple, provide a benefit to the tank himself for guarding. He already takes more damage, and we cant buff his "tankiness" as that frankly doesnt make sense... But what is something the tank cares about? Damage. So if we remove the bonus from taunt, and add back some of the bonus into "guard" so that tanks that are guarding or within range of guard get some special benefit, now you will have every 2H tank under the sun guarding everyone around him AND learning that guard has a range. Not just that too, now every 2H tank under the sun will want to max parry so that he takes less damage from guard...

Sure premades will benefit from this as well, however many premades run SNB tanks and frankly this wont help SNB all that much. Not just this, but it also greatly impacts PUG vs PUG SCs as well and I think it mainly increases the QoL for many players who might not have a large guild.

Personally, I play in NA and there are often not many NA guys in my guild or alliance on at some hours of the day. If you want to increase population, then increasing the QOL for guys who dont play in full premades would be a boost to that. Playing a MDPS class makes you realize it more and more, how not fun it is, and how frustrating it is trying to get a tank to guard you. Even when they do, they run away from you and almost see it as your job to follow and assist off them while they rush the back line - mainly because not many opponents ever FF a tank so the second you try and get close to him/them YOU (being the MDPS) are focused.

While this doesnt change PM vs PM games, and while it also wont really change PUG vs PM games, it will be a step towards balancing things out. One of the biggest impacts in this game is guarding. Even if you are a solid premade, if your tanks are not guarding you can lose to PUGs. There is virtually zero in game guard support and even if there were, there is no "incentive" for a tank to guard, unless he wants to be selfless for the benefit of the team... I really dont see any other way to significantly encouraging the behavior of guarding someone else other than providing a damage increase to the one who is guarding to encourage it.

[Collateral]

SnB tanks already deal ZERO damage, so they wont matter frankly. Its the 2H Tanks that can deal semi damage but now to max their damage they are forced to guard which benefits EVERYONE.

I'm sorry, what??