Proc/Active Renown abillties

[saupreusse]

I absolutely agree with the OP. My shadow warrior has no right to have RD or a cleanse. but i have to skill them both to stay "competitive", because every melee on the enemy realm uses at least RD. its so strong that it has become a requirement on every Melee DD - and is the death sentence for most kiter classes. if you manage to survive the cc immunity, well done, but most of the time you are screwed. it also makes a lot of cheese tactics possible. (like pull and RD)

We had some discussions in the guild and someone came up with the idea to make certain renown skills class restricted. Like RD only for tanks. but that was just brainstorming.

[zazie]

I absolutely agree with the OP. My shadow warrior has no right to have RD or a cleanse. but i have to skill them both to stay "competitive", because every melee on the enemy realm uses at least RD. its so strong that it has become a requirement on every Melee DD - and is the death sentence for most kiter classes. if you manage to survive the cc immunity, well done, but most of the time you are screwed. it also makes a lot of cheese tactics possible. (like pull and RD)

We had some discussions in the guild and someone came up with the idea to make certain renown skills class restricted. Like RD only for tanks. but that was just brainstorming.

This would be a good idea, DAOC had this in some way (Charge was for MDPS only for example, tanks could have Ignore Pain which was % Heal, things of that nature). There is some ways I could see it being beneficial. For example only let Cloth healers have access to quick escape since they have a much lower Armor factor but don't let them spec for things such as (Insert whatever you think they shouldn't have here, Ill go with Deft Defender or Cleansing Wind for example)

On the other hand, ts hard to make things class specific because so many classes rely on such basic skills to be competitive right now (For example AM/RP/Zeal/Shaman need to blow 30/40 of their RR40 points for Crit 3) leaving you to basically become RDPS Fodder without speccing for Deft Defender 3 for something such as RD, or to be able to kite Melee (Quick Escape, if implemented).

Right now there is such a huge gap between archetypes (Cloth Vs Medium Healer), MDPS vs RDPS, Tank vs Tank.

We need to remember that a LOT of the gear that was implemented/altered towards the end of the game was to make each class more balanced against the other trinity counterparts and that a LOT more realm points were available to spend. To be honest I feel the game was the most balanced just before DF/WF was implemented.

[Cimba]

Resolute Defence, Cleansing Winds, Imporoved Flee, Efficiancy, Last Stand. Expanded Capacity, Quick Escape

I'm not quite sure why these abillties were introduceed to the game, but I think these abillties actually are making the game more unballanced then it has to be. I'm not quit sure how to explain it. But it might seem ballanceed since every class can get em. It just strikes me as wierd as i think every class isn't supose to have acess to a 100% cleanse on will or a 10 sec immunity against CC. If every class were the same i wouldn't have a problem with these abillties but thats not the case. It kinda breaks classes that are dependant on DoTs, CC, Snares etz to do their thing and make em ALOT worse.

I personally think thesee abillties should be completly removed.

I'm sorry to be the elephant in the room but I dont' think you have an argument there. You're just posting your feelings about certain abilities with abstract references to classes that dependent on other abilities.

If I think about DoT dependent classes BW/Sorc and Magus/Engineer come to my mind. For BW/Sorc the DoT cooldowns don't exceed 10 seconds. Even with a fully specced CW you would only be able to cleanse every 12th rotation, I don't really the the issue with that if you consider the investment of 20-30 renown points.
To put it into perspective, as an order player, you could be (and are frequently) facing 4 M2 group cleanses during the same time.

I see RD as a bit more controversial but not that big of an issue in group play either. The bridge in Gromril Crossing comes to my mind immediately. Obviously players with RD have a big advantage there. Funny is, most people don't seem to question the decision to fight directly on the bridge even though they don't have RD.

Maybe you were talking about small scale fights were RD/CW are a much bigger issue but since the game won't be balanced around that I don't think we need to talk about it.

[magter3001]

If the argument is that resolute defense creates class inbalance then consider this...

If there was no resolute defense, more players would put points into crit chance... contributing further to class imbalance by making crit reliant classes like WH/BW even stronger.

With such low renown atm, you have to pick and choose what you rather have... a resolute defense on a 2 min cooldown or 9% more crit. A class like a BW would prolly pick crit (unless they really hate dying).

It's when you get closer to 80 cap and 100 cap that these abilities become really strong, but atm they are pretty balanced given the choices that are available. Shall we complain about how parry and dodge/disrupt renown passives create class imbalance?

I absolutely agree with the OP. My shadow warrior has no right to have RD or a cleanse. but i have to skill them both to stay "competitive", because every melee on the enemy realm uses at least RD. its so strong that it has become a requirement on every Melee DD - and is the death sentence for most kiter classes. if you manage to survive the cc immunity, well done, but most of the time you are screwed. it also makes a lot of cheese tactics possible. (like pull and RD)

We had some discussions in the guild and someone came up with the idea to make certain renown skills class restricted. Like RD only for tanks. but that was just brainstorming.

This seems to me like a 1v1 complaint. Aza himself says that the game won't be balanced around 1v1. Considering the SW has a rkd, a self punt, stance switch to gives 100% armor, a 4 second melee disarm if a melee does indeed get to you, morale 1 punt, etc... you shouldn't have to much of a problem surviving against a group with your own group so long as you know how to play and your tank knows how to guard. Hell, your tank would be wise to use RD when you're thrown in that situation so that he doesn't get punted which leaves you alive... I've done this numerous times on my tank to great effect.

RD can not only be used offensively, but defensively as well.

You said that pull+RD is a cheese tactic but you can easily stop that through your own RD or using glass arrow and getting out of range.

[Danielle]

I absolutely agree with the OP. My shadow warrior has no right to have RD or a cleanse. but i have to skill them both to stay "competitive", because every melee on the enemy realm uses at least RD. its so strong that it has become a requirement on every Melee DD - and is the death sentence for most kiter classes. if you manage to survive the cc immunity, well done, but most of the time you are screwed. it also makes a lot of cheese tactics possible. (like pull and RD)

We had some discussions in the guild and someone came up with the idea to make certain renown skills class restricted. Like RD only for tanks. but that was just brainstorming.

When you refer to competitive are you talking about 1v1s or 6v6? I certainly think RD and cleansing wind can be super powerful in 1v1s and ARE a requirement for solo roaming and dueling. For 6v6 I would differ on that statement. There are plenty of other situations like WL/Mara roots and Champion's challenges where your team already has to bail you out or you die as a RDPS or anything other than a tank really. Compared to these things RD is nothing. It was already mentioned somewhere that 1v1 doesn't belong into balance discussion so if your argument is related to that, then why mention it? Or why do you feel a 5m cd 10s immunity is that powerful in other settings?

[roadkillrobin]

If the argument is that resolute defense creates class inbalance then consider this...

If there was no resolute defense, more players would put points into crit chance... contributing further to class imbalance by making crit reliant classes like WH/BW even stronger.

With such low renown atm, you have to pick and choose what you rather have... a resolute defense on a 2 min cooldown or 9% more crit. A class like a BW would prolly pick crit (unless they really hate dying).

It's when you get closer to 80 cap and 100 cap that these abilities become really strong, but atm they are pretty balanced given the choices that are available. Shall we complain about how parry and dodge/disrupt renown passives create class imbalance?

I absolutely agree with the OP. My shadow warrior has no right to have RD or a cleanse. but i have to skill them both to stay "competitive", because every melee on the enemy realm uses at least RD. its so strong that it has become a requirement on every Melee DD - and is the death sentence for most kiter classes. if you manage to survive the cc immunity, well done, but most of the time you are screwed. it also makes a lot of cheese tactics possible. (like pull and RD)

We had some discussions in the guild and someone came up with the idea to make certain renown skills class restricted. Like RD only for tanks. but that was just brainstorming.

This seems to me like a 1v1 complaint. Aza himself says that the game won't be balanced around 1v1. Considering the SW has a rkd, a self punt, stance switch to gives 100% armor, a 4 second melee disarm if a melee does indeed get to you, morale 1 punt, etc... you shouldn't have to much of a problem surviving against a group with your own group so long as you know how to play and your tank knows how to guard. Hell, your tank would be wise to use RD when you're thrown in that situation so that he doesn't get punted which leaves you alive... I've done this numerous times on my tank to great effect.

RD can not only be used offensively, but defensively as well.

You said that pull+RD is a cheese tactic but you can easily stop that through your own RD or using glass arrow and getting out of range.

Crit/ParryDisrupt/Dodge are mechanics in the game that BW's as in the example allready have, they just give em more of it. RD and CW gives the BW a tool that the class simply doesn't have in it's arsenal to get around weaknesses the class should have.

[Nekkma]

I like the concept of active abilities from renown. The passive stat increases are rather boring and does not add anything to the game. The active ones do. The only one I really hate is last stand and hopefully it will never get implemented here. I am fine with the rest, although some might need some tweaks in power and cooldowns.

I also really loved the 8 piece (5 piece in WF) bonuses but those defenitly need some tuning down if they are ever beeing planned to be re-introduced.

[peterthepan3]

RD/CW allow smaller groups to fight against greater numbers in the lakes too. Also RD creates an extra element to take into account in 6v6 which can be fun depending on your stance.

as long as TB stays out that's cool =)

[magter3001]

Crit/ParryDisrupt/Dodge are mechanics in the game that BW's as in the example allready have, they just give em more of it. RD and CW gives the BW a tool that the class simply doesn't have in it's arsenal to get around weaknesses the class should have.

If you argue that a mechanic should stay because a class has it in the game then look at SWs M1 that acts like a CW. Focused mind is the closest thing to RD we have. The argument that crit is fine for BW because they just get "more of it" is asinine as you see time and time again people complaining about dying in 1 second to a BW or sorc (they wrongfully blame NB for it) and don't realize that some of these classes can get up to 60-100% crit chance with a mechanic that increases their crit damage by 150%.

Very poor argument on your part.

[roadkillrobin]

Crit/ParryDisrupt/Dodge are mechanics in the game that BW's as in the example allready have, they just give em more of it. RD and CW gives the BW a tool that the class simply doesn't have in it's arsenal to get around weaknesses the class should have.

If you argue that a mechanic should stay because a class has it in the game then look at SWs M1 that acts like a CW. Focused mind is the closest thing to RD we have. The argument that crit is fine for BW because they just get "more of it" is asinine as you see time and time again people complaining about dying in 1 second to a BW or sorc (they wrongfully blame NB for it) and don't realize that some of these classes can get up to 60-100% crit chance with a mechanic that increases their crit damage by 150%.

Very poor argument on your part.

Sorry but thats a BW imballance then not a general game ballance issue with renown abillties.
Also you can't compare Morales to at will abillties thats acceseble for every class.