How to actually make hybrid healer a must for each group.

[Jaycub]

The only class ran in doubles regularly is DoK, doing something about their m2 would be a good start.

Forcing hybrids doesn't make sense, just make 3-2-1 groups more viable by addressing issues with the dominance of melee trains in small scale.

Changes made by Az atm to Shaman/AM are a very good start and then some to bringing them into the fold as hybrid/dps spots in 3-2-1 groups but they are still a long way off being considered as pure DPS or healers in your super duper tryhard meta groups running a 2-2-2 setup, or just being in general good all around choices for your whatever mish mash groups/pugs.

I think taking a look at buffs/utility these class bring would be the best route to making them desirable as pure backline healers. WP/DoK are just you know, i dont have to explain... and RP/Zealot bring amazing tactics like the 25% increased healing for party, bubble proc, AP buff, etc... and it's all virtually passive no need to think and it's reliable.

AM/Shaman utility is largely covered by tank buffs/auras or down to things like puddle/AP drain which are certainly strong but ultimately not as reliable as a group might want them to be.

[roadkillrobin]

The problem is that aslong as there are a pure healers who can be more effective then their hybrids at their role as healers they will always be the pick coz it's just so much more relieble. If you wanna make hybrid universally work as a support role in this game you need to cut out the opton to let groups contain more then 2 pure healers in your group. And if hybrid heals at some point becomes just as effective as pure healers, then the game just becomes broken. No buffs in the world is gonna change this. And aslong as you can slot 2+ pure healers in each group Melee Heals/Ranged Life taps is gonna be a niche thing. But if you wanna make em a real thing in this game this is the only option i see tbh.

[Smellybelly]

As a most of the time, melee dok i dont really agree on all points.
First off, you should NEVER have to be forced to use any singular class for all different tactics.
Secondly, boosting doks melee heals may very well make him too powerful for solo play, though devs have made clear that solo play is not something they balance around.

However, if you could boost group heals but let a smaller % affect the dok himself, then yeah you could be on to something. But i dont agree that a melee dok should have the same healing potential as a pure heal specced one. You bring 75% dps and decent heals, OR you bring 100% heal with the extra tactics that allows, such as AP regen, better cleanses etc.

[roadkillrobin]

I don't think the hybrid healers should be able to heal as a pure healbot either, It should be somewre between 50-75% of the output of a pure healer imo.

[Azarael]

When you discuss a hybrid you have to bear in mind that I know about and will continue to accomodate for the hybrid drop problem, which is that the closer to 50/50 split a hybrid is, the more efficient the hybrid's performance in each aspect must be in order to compete with the desirability of pures and the inflexibility that a proper hybrid mechanic brings. This is why heal AM/Shaman are able to throw out DPS spells as strong as a DPS AM/Shaman and then some, and still not be considered daemons from Hell.

My attitude to hybridization is that I will allow for it and attempt to make it effective, but I will always prioritize a class being able to perform as pure. This does not mean classically pure - I may combine lifesteal and standard cast mechanics on a healer for example - but the pure option will always be considered primary. The hybrid option will then receive secondary attention.

[navis]

This is gonna sound like a extreme method, but in a game were min maxing and burst is the dominating factor i don't see any reason to pick a hybrid class when you can maximize the effeciancy of all healers as so called healbots. It also fixes the issues of some classes being super effective as multiples. It does however screw over the racial guilds and racial group comps.
.

I don't agree that this is a min/maxing game. It's a synergy game in my views. OFC there is many gameplay types within Warhammer however depending on exactly what your concern relates to, I can see that to be so.
This is a game where 1 or 2 small parties can wreck warbands if they play exceptionally well.

[Smellybelly]

When you discuss a hybrid you have to bear in mind that I know about and will continue to accomodate for the hybrid drop problem, which is that the closer to 50/50 split a hybrid is, the more efficient the hybrid's performance in each aspect must be in order to compete with the desirability of pures and the inflexibility that a proper hybrid mechanic brings. This is why heal AM/Shaman are able to throw out DPS spells as strong as a DPS AM/Shaman and then some, and still not be considered daemons from Hell.

My attitude to hybridization is that I will allow for it and attempt to make it effective, but I will always prioritize a class being able to perform as pure. This does not mean classically pure - I may combine lifesteal and standard cast mechanics on a healer for example - but the pure option will always be considered primary. The hybrid option will then receive secondary attention.

I find your attitude to this issue to be very helpful, keep an open mind and you seem to be doing that. Furthermore, the whole dps/heal balance can be (if thats possible) balanced upon the tactics a dps dok (in my case) need to use to fulfill my assigned role. If i go full dps, i get worse standard casted heals, lifetaps becomes the new mechanic and to be fair, if i lifetap the wrong target in a brawl my healing output gets reduced to basically zero

[NSKaneda]

Hybrid shaman and why it's a must... Where to start?

The key to it's usefulness lies in speed and versatility. Because hb sha healing and offence is equally effective it can be used at the same time for the sole purpose of healing. With a small tweak of 2 tactics and a pot it can be changed to more offensive or more supportive style. With 2/3 ratio and high healing chance it's healing and buffing power is a force to be reckoned with! And offensive skills are still decent - after all this is T3 armour, the rrank can dampen (or give more burst) only to a certain, gear restricted level.

But I digress.

[NSKaneda]

+ shaman skills will tip balance in your favour!
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Spoiler:

Front line stuck or funnel? Handy aoe debuffs for all! With some buffs and vampire dots. With that ground targeted green aoe snare that can give you few meters more when running away... Or few less when chasing. Did I mention aoe elemental dmg snare combined with group-wide elemental dmg converter? Oh, and Toughness debuff? Among others?
Gives your group an option to hold or break the line at a whim. Combined with Black Ork buffs...

+ AP problems? What AP problems?
-------------------------------------------

Spoiler:

I admit - this is a cheap one. Every race have group-wide AP and Morale generation abilities as well as individual skills and tactics. But +40 APs AND high-crit chance heal on top of that? And spammable? Everybody wants some when it gets hot and heavy And shaman just gets APs on every. Every. EVERY. Critical heal. Including offensive skill heals. Which, when more or less balanced heal wise makes it so damn appealing. You have a hot. Dot you have.
Cheap. Spammable. AP generating. Your teammates helping. Mechanic building.
And that's just the basic skill

+ Mobility
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Spoiler:

It's fast. Most of the time you can throw group heal instantly. Inbetween buffing, debuffing, dotting, hotting... Group heal. Light up next targets for your group of cut off enemy reinforcements. Give your group some space with tactical green right at the feet of charging enemy.

+ Everybody gets some
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Spoiler:

Absorb shield(s). Toughness buff. AoE offensive skills debuff. Additional, more than decent dps and front-line pressure. Higher morale or AP generation. Great instant group heals and potent single heals.

+ Fast or instant res.
--------------------------

Spoiler:

With post-res APs on top.

'nuff said.


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Why wouldn't you like a hybrid shammie in your group?

[roadkillrobin]

Well aslong as there's another choise that does the job with higher reabillity and more room for your group to make small mistakes aswell as group in less need to protect that class those classes always gonna be the first and second choise. The only way for a hybrid healer to be that choise is by eliminating the other options.

Let me repeat this again. People are gonna play the moast efficiant way. Not the way its intended to work, If not using the mechanic when healing is the moast efficiant way to heal thats how people gonna play it. And if theres another class doing it better thats the class they are goin to play.

If there are no options to pick the more efficiant class and no options for hybrid healers clases to be a less effective version of the more efficiant class you create a demand for the hybrid healers both as a archetype and as a valid group choise.