Bring it on (Choppa ability)

[Penril]

Reminder to everyone: READ THE BDF RULES.

I don't have time to edit all your posts with warnings. So from now on, i will simply ban people from the BDF. Things that will get you banned:

"totally agree, +1"
"that's OP, i disagree"
"Get to da Choppa!!!11111oneoneone"

You get the idea.

[Morf]

Suggested change would be an improvement but still wont ever be used, will deal more damage spamming flurry and if you are looking at using it on rdps, you will be wanting to use anti root/snare - charge rather then deal little damage to them while taking the full amount of there damage.
Only way i see it being useful is if it gets a huge buff where its almost op or if its some sort + defense ability similar to wall of darting steel which could end up being op also.

[TenTonHammer]

Well i was going to make a point about the sheer uselessness of the ablity but morf already beat me in part to it.

Before i ever played choppa on live i always thought this ability was a self buff that did return damage on hit ala reiposte style

For a level 40 granted ability it feels extreamly lack luster

Its damage is extreamly weak, espically when yout factor in the fact that choppa's wrecka tree is so weak that they never really spec past chop fasta and as morf pointed out your would get much more dps out of spamming flurry, and other AoE than using this terrtible waste of a gcd/ap ability


If your in the thick of it, you cant put out more damage with just regualr attack abilites due to AA and what not than using the channel and if your trying to be cheeky and use it while retreating from range every smart rdps will know not to shoot from the very obvious animation/VFX or just laugh off the damage and you would be better off just popping snare ignore/RD + charge to close in on them


I dont under stand robins suggestiont that well so what i might be proposing might be similar but i think it SHOULD be turned into a self buff that for 3-4 attacks will deal back some damage back to the attack when attacked

[Scrilian]

Back in the day when both SL/CH were released the ability reflected all the damage, including ranged.

Since we're in the sort of RDPS heavy environment with bunny hopping still being a thing, Run Away, RKD, etc, I propose that the ability should be changed back to doing just that - a sort of O-SHIiiee... button for all types of damage, 1min CD, 10 sec of all reflect and hearty AP cost.

[Grock]

I wanted to make one big thread about undeperforming and overperforming abilities of Slayer/Choppa and list all my suggestions there, but since this discussion has already started i'll put my input here.

60s CD
interruptable channel with no AA
avg TT damage
No control of who you hit

ICD or no ICD there is 0 reason to use this ability ever

Agree with this completely. This ability needs much more changes. OP's suggestions is not enough.

There are some major problems with the ability's basic functionality:

• 1) It doesn't proc on parried attacks
  2) It doesn't proc on ranged attacks, making it useless against ranged classes
  3) It has unreasonably long CD and duration
  4) It has ICD of 1s, making it completely useless outside of 1v1 situations
  5) Internal CD isn't synced with GCD which means it often procs even less than it could, making actual DPS even lower

(Althought there is one strong point - It can't be parried)

As a result there's no reason to use it really.
The only idea i had for it is to use it during 1v1 situations in high parry+riposte build, just to do some damage without proccing opponent's Riposte until you can get Rampage. But even this use is questionable because most of the time you can just disengage and kite.

No matter what we change about this skill at least the #1, #3 and #4 from the list above should be fixed, otherwise it'll remain useless or niche.

Now to the solutions.

My personal view is that this ability should have built-in avoidance(parry, dodge and disrupt) and amount of this avoidance should be high enough to make this ability useful even outside of parry-stacking dual-wielding builds.
Maybe even make it so avoidance from this skill doesn't stack with avoidance from gear/rr/etc, which will open way to raise the amount of avoidance the skill itself provides.

The reason for that is very simple: concept of this ability is a defensive "ward off" ability, it supposed to tell your enemies "Don't touch me" and give you some free space, and if the enemy decides to continue attacking it should result in unfair HP trade for them.

To reinforce this concept we could potentially just increase the damage output (in addition to fixing things listed above). However i believe it will not help in situations where you get attacked by multiple enemies because incoming DPS will be much higher than whatever outcoming DPS this ability could have and you'll just get bursted down before this skill could do any damage to anyone.

Adding avoidance bonus will still fulfill the same idea: "Ward off the enemy or force them into unfair HP trade". But in addition to that it will also become reliable self-defence tool which will be effective in any situaion, against any number of opponents because in addition to trading HP/damage it will also reduce your incoming damage, allowing you to survive longer regardless of opponent actions.
Furthermore it will increase depth and skill ceiling of the class, which is always a good thing.

So, ideal solution in my vision:

Firstly fix the list above:

• 1) Allow to proc on parried/dodged/disrupted attacks
  2) Allow to proc on ranged attacks (Optionally: Only if attacker is in certain range - 30ft, 65ft, 80ft, etc)
  3) Reduce duration to 5-6s and cooldown to 15-25s
  4) Make ICD per-target, rather than per-proc
  5) Somehow modify ICD to better stabilize dps against slow(1.1 - 1.6s GCD) and fast (0.5 - 0.8s ) attacks (someone good at math give a number please)

In addition:

• 1) One of the following:
  • a: While channeling you gain 40-50% chance to parry/dodge/disrupt all incoming attacks
    b: Increase your parry/dodge/disrupt by 25-35% while you are channeling this ability*
    * I dont like second option because it will only further reinforce parry meta, which is already mainstream. It only makes the game more boring.
  2) Modify damage output to better balance around its newfound defensive role
  3) Remove Dual Wield requirement, make 2h great again. Otherwise it'll just further enforce DW/Parry stacking meta.

If technically possible:
1) Remove ICD and:
2) Modify damage(or STR bonus) of each proc based on incoming attack's offensive stat contribution


Hopefully this wasn't too confusing to read and will help the discussion

p.s. Retribution already can crit

[Toldavf]

I dont under stand robins suggestiont that well so what i might be proposing might be similar but i think it SHOULD be turned into a self buff that for 3-4 attacks will deal back some damage back to the attack when attacked

Like a small on your guard? I had a some what similar idea with damage scaling on your remaining hp but then i remembered fierce might .

What about a instant cast ability that works like a weaker lashing power? Obviously it's useless for single target focus as the target is random so that's a plus, and its physical damage so it's subject to mitigation and such so it should provide additional damage without being bonkers.

It might make good buff pre wb fight. With all the buffs you might want to pop pre fight it might be a good idea to give it a high ish ap cost so it actually has a little down side. Duration could be as long or short as we like.

[Skalier]

Other mdps skills 40 lvl have a CD of only 30 seconds, not 60 like choppa and slayer:

-WL Fetch!, 65 ft range draws the enemy to himself.
-Maruder Terrible Embrance, 65 ft range draws the enemy to himself.
-WH Declare Anathema, The player bounces off the enemy at 65 feet and ground it in place for 3 seconds
-WE Agile Escape, The player bounces off the enemy at 65 feet and ground it in place for 3 seconds.

As we can see, none of these skills do damage. These are amazing skills that make the game easier. These are skills typical for the style of playing these characters. Choppa and Slayer fight in the first line with many opponents. They also need skills that will make their style of play easier, different than the others that already have. Animation skills Bring It On and Retribution, where the character swings axes allows us to put here some defensive skills, because this these characters need the most. There are many ideas.

For example 100% defense against all forms of attacks for 10 seconds, 30 sec CD is a good idea. You say it is OP, but not really because at that time it can not use other skills and attack.

[Tesq]

Spoiler:

since ppl are throwing idea if ppl/dev are not confortable with proc or dmg return kind of stuff the skill can maybe even simply be made into aoe channeling direct dmg similar the vast stuff you can find around on sorc/bw/wl/mara. Just let's say aoe channeling 30 feet all around you or cone; pick one.
Kinda hard see this as a proc thing anyway since is more an active skill that proc on being hit. Btw while the skill is equal on both side, slayer and choppa aoe situation isn't; may also directly opt for 2 different fix/change/approach one stronger for choppa and one weaker for slayer.

really 2 cent sy

P-S. keep in mind any fix you do that a taunt will interrupt and send this into CD so no effect even defensive became too much OP even if include 100% avoidance /immune to dmg since any taunt can interrupt it so what @skalier said is doingable (also if is just 100% avoidance some skill such as chosen/sm base attack can just bypass it.

[Skalier]

Only that this skill requires Dual Wield. And the problem is how to make the players also use the great weapon. The answer is simple:

-Choppa Try An' Hurt Me and Sit down,
-Slayer Enervating Blow and Incapacitate,

As abilities which Exhausts your rage will now requires great weapon. I think it makes sense and it is fair.

[Penril]

We are considering removing the dual-wield requirement for this skill.