RvR Feedback

[Kabuterimonga]

How is this fair? If one side starts a siege, they need to split to stop enemy from holding BOs so LORD won't get healed...but the side defending does not need to split. They can just zerg around BOs getting kills untill LORD warband stop trying.

Totally agreed on this point.

So how many BOs can zerg hold at any given moment?

You can leave few players or even AFK ones holdin BOs using them as Bait, so you can pretty much hold 3 BOs easily whitout many people on it and start zergin around looking for enemy goin after it. Then as I said, after a while it gets frustrating.

[Kabuterimonga]

And the intent with the system overall is to split the zerg as while a massive fight can be fun at times it also removes a lot of the mechanics from a individual career as well as tanking the performance of everyone around if the zerg becomes too big.

Why split the zerg? Can't stop enemy from zergin up when that's what you have to do to win fights. That's the Meta on this game.

As a Destro warband leader I struggle to counter enemy AoE Bright Wizzard / Engineer / Slayer based Order Warbands. The main way for Order to Zerg is by having a lot of Range DPS and spamm AoE. That's what the game wants you to do to win. This is why I don't agree on the idea of splittin the Zerg.

If one wants to play as Individual career you can queue up for Scenarios at the same time you roam around RvR Lake and maybe help Zerg fights / Hold or Stop BOs once in a while.

To win at RvR you need a strong organized AoE Warband.

The performance for everyone is because of Range AoE Spells graphics. Maybe trying to Nerf AoE Range DPS is a good idea to stop enemy from zergin that much and it will improve performance since less players will choose to go as BW / Sorc / Engi / Magus. This way we could see more Choppas / Slayers / AoE Whie Lion / AoE Squig Herder / Marauders / Close range Shadow Warrior. Performance will improve for not having too much Magic going on.

Changing the zerg meta once in a while may be a good idea.

[footpatrol2]

You'll never break up the zerg without either population zone control or some type of hard limiting mechanic's. It's just a flaw in the game. Being able to freely go where ever is asking for zerg like conditions and should never have been implemented by mythic.

[Fractus]

As someone playing a PvP game, why would you not log in either side, join either 2nd warband or 6 man and go straight to the highest population area. If the keep was under attack then there. You log PvP game to fight.

The only way to move this motivation to focus somewhere else is as footpatrol said is a hard mechanic.

Is it possible to make AAO based higher renown available only on BO's if a keep lord is being attacked?

Trying to think of motivation to make me think going to the keep siege is a worse idea for PvP fighting game, than going to a BO.

[Godsdemon03]

And the intent with the system overall is to split the zerg as while a massive fight can be fun at times it also removes a lot of the mechanics from a individual career as well as tanking the performance of everyone around if the zerg becomes too big.

Why split the zerg? Can't stop enemy from zergin up when that's what you have to do to win fights. That's the Meta on this game.

As a Destro warband leader I struggle to counter enemy AoE Bright Wizzard / Engineer / Slayer based Order Warbands. The main way for Order to Zerg is by having a lot of Range DPS and spamm AoE. That's what the game wants you to do to win. This is why I don't agree on the idea of splittin the Zerg.

If one wants to play as Individual career you can queue up for Scenarios at the same time you roam around RvR Lake and maybe help Zerg fights / Hold or Stop BOs once in a while.

To win at RvR you need a strong organized AoE Warband.

The performance for everyone is because of Range AoE Spells graphics. Maybe trying to Nerf AoE Range DPS is a good idea to stop enemy from zergin that much and it will improve performance since less players will choose to go as BW / Sorc / Engi / Magus. This way we could see more Choppas / Slayers / AoE Whie Lion / AoE Squig Herder / Marauders / Close range Shadow Warrior. Performance will improve for not having too much Magic going on.

Changing the zerg meta once in a while may be a good idea.

The problem I have with this on Chaos' side. The melee push and no one ranged follows or melee pushes, ranged follows then melee runs. EIther push and go for glory or melt cause once your back is to the other zerg running they'll melt you anyways.

I was going to ask if the sorc and BW have the same range for AOE spells. I seem to have to get really close for my 3s timer to cast is up and usually the target has ran out of range by then and it expires on me. I saw leveling up Chaos had the meat trains but not the ranged to back them up on the push.
I play NA Prime time and Chaos vs Order in that time period is just pathetic. It would be nice if people would do the right thing since its free and people bounce around on sides and even out the server sop everyone can have fun. After all, if you run off the enemy you have no one to play with in orvr and can sit in your cap sity begging for SC pubbies to join, log or go PVE. We know how the community feels about PVE. heh.

[lefze]

And the intent with the system overall is to split the zerg as while a massive fight can be fun at times it also removes a lot of the mechanics from a individual career as well as tanking the performance of everyone around if the zerg becomes too big.

Why split the zerg? Can't stop enemy from zergin up when that's what you have to do to win fights. That's the Meta on this game.

As a Destro warband leader I struggle to counter enemy AoE Bright Wizzard / Engineer / Slayer based Order Warbands. The main way for Order to Zerg is by having a lot of Range DPS and spamm AoE. That's what the game wants you to do to win. This is why I don't agree on the idea of splittin the Zerg.

If one wants to play as Individual career you can queue up for Scenarios at the same time you roam around RvR Lake and maybe help Zerg fights / Hold or Stop BOs once in a while.

To win at RvR you need a strong organized AoE Warband.

The performance for everyone is because of Range AoE Spells graphics. Maybe trying to Nerf AoE Range DPS is a good idea to stop enemy from zergin that much and it will improve performance since less players will choose to go as BW / Sorc / Engi / Magus. This way we could see more Choppas / Slayers / AoE Whie Lion / AoE Squig Herder / Marauders / Close range Shadow Warrior. Performance will improve for not having too much Magic going on.

Changing the zerg meta once in a while may be a good idea.

The problem I have with this on Chaos' side. The melee push and no one ranged follows or melee pushes, ranged follows then melee runs. EIther push and go for glory or melt cause once your back is to the other zerg running they'll melt you anyways.

I was going to ask if the sorc and BW have the same range for AOE spells. I seem to have to get really close for my 3s timer to cast is up and usually the target has ran out of range by then and it expires on me. I saw leveling up Chaos had the meat trains but not the ranged to back them up on the push.
I play NA Prime time and Chaos vs Order in that time period is just pathetic. It would be nice if people would do the right thing since its free and people bounce around on sides and even out the server sop everyone can have fun. After all, if you run off the enemy you have no one to play with in orvr and can sit in your cap sity begging for SC pubbies to join, log or go PVE. We know how the community feels about PVE. heh.

Sorc has superior range to BW. But the thing is, you don't cast shattered shadows when bombing, pretty much ever. PM me if you want some help with the class.

[Xergon]

And the intent with the system overall is to split the zerg as while a massive fight can be fun at times it also removes a lot of the mechanics from a individual career as well as tanking the performance of everyone around if the zerg becomes too big.

Why split the zerg? Can't stop enemy from zergin up when that's what you have to do to win fights. That's the Meta on this game.

As a Destro warband leader I struggle to counter enemy AoE Bright Wizzard / Engineer / Slayer based Order Warbands. The main way for Order to Zerg is by having a lot of Range DPS and spamm AoE. That's what the game wants you to do to win. This is why I don't agree on the idea of splittin the Zerg.

If one wants to play as Individual career you can queue up for Scenarios at the same time you roam around RvR Lake and maybe help Zerg fights / Hold or Stop BOs once in a while.

To win at RvR you need a strong organized AoE Warband.

Warband not ZERG (multiple warbands). It's ok to have 1 WB vs 1 WB, its ok to have 1 Premade WB vs 2 PUG WBs, its ok to fight 2 WBs vs 2 WBs, but anything more than 3 WB is pure cluster f*** without any skill/strategy/tactic involved...

My bad i didn't read that topic earlier, but i may try to contribute a bit to help.

I'm also PUG Warband leader from time to time and if you feel "unfair" about our RangeDPS (even here i cant completely agree that Order has any bigger advantage than Destro RangeDPS), what about your idea of Melee Pull Train you started running in your WBs lately (not to mention playing Choppa yourself ) ? Do you think its fun to play against that ? Tell me how i'm suppose to setup any wall/funnel defense when Choppa pull can pull tanks/heals/dps through anything (walls/stairs included - it happen today in DW, you pulled me on Outer Oil and i happen to teleport to Destro RAM on gate...)
I'm not saying that Choppa pull ability should be removed but either tweaked accordingly or other side should have something that allows counter it.

My idea about RvR in WAR is something like 6/12 man groups fighting for BOs while bigger groups / Warbands fights on Keep (even if both doors went down, you still want to have some action spread around RvR lake not only on 1 choke point). Maybe its wrong maybe its too perfect and maybe it won't ever happen but i think that what recent changes were suppose to offer, for which i'm very happy and thankful to DEV Team for trying.

[peterthepan3]

What a load of tosh regarding order dominating. Phalanx showed how to dominate Order via marauder/heck even tank raze groups. Why not try optimising your WB instead of reciting the monotonous realm bias rhetoric.

Also - blanket nerfs for magus/engineer have a history of going incredibly well...right?

[Tesq]

And the intent with the system overall is to split the zerg as while a massive fight can be fun at times it also removes a lot of the mechanics from a individual career as well as tanking the performance of everyone around if the zerg becomes too big.

Why split the zerg? Can't stop enemy from zergin up when that's what you have to do to win fights. That's the Meta on this game.

As a Destro warband leader I struggle to counter enemy AoE Bright Wizzard / Engineer / Slayer based Order Warbands. The main way for Order to Zerg is by having a lot of Range DPS and spamm AoE. That's what the game wants you to do to win. This is why I don't agree on the idea of splittin the Zerg.

If one wants to play as Individual career you can queue up for Scenarios at the same time you roam around RvR Lake and maybe help Zerg fights / Hold or Stop BOs once in a while.

To win at RvR you need a strong organized AoE Warband.

Warband not ZERG (multiple warbands). It's ok to have 1 WB vs 1 WB, its ok to have 1 Premade WB vs 2 PUG WBs, its ok to fight 2 WBs vs 2 WBs, but anything more than 3 WB is pure cluster f*** without any skill/strategy/tactic involved...

My bad i didn't read that topic earlier, but i may try to contribute a bit to help.

I'm also PUG Warband leader from time to time and if you feel "unfair" about our RangeDPS (even here i cant completely agree that Order has any bigger advantage than Destro RangeDPS), what about your idea of Melee Pull Train you started running in your WBs lately (not to mention playing Choppa yourself ) ? Do you think its fun to play against that ? Tell me how i'm suppose to setup any wall/funnel defense when Choppa pull can pull tanks/heals/dps through anything (walls/stairs included - it happen today in DW, you pulled me on Outer Oil and i happen to teleport to Destro RAM on gate...)
I'm not saying that Choppa pull ability should be removed but either tweaked accordingly or other side should have something that allows counter it.

My idea about RvR in WAR is something like 6/12 man groups fighting for BOs while bigger groups / Warbands fights on Keep (even if both doors went down, you still want to have some action spread around RvR lake not only on 1 choke point). Maybe its wrong maybe its too perfect and maybe it won't ever happen but i think that what recent changes were suppose to offer, for which i'm very happy and thankful to DEV Team for trying.

This scenario of split force can be only happen where you have to achive the best results possible in the small ammount oftime possble because the fight have a timer ticking or the game force you to cap and rewards for that syncro caps.

The best exemple of this was old city istance stage 1; which is like an sc but with higher numbers. And the fact that it also ended in draw a lot of time.and it had to be won 2 times in row to give points to the lockbar to move into step 2.

Plus

What happened with skaven incursion in 1.4

If the objective to take are all syncro contested and locked then the fight is forced to spread immidiately in that fragment with out delay , otherwise the other faction win.

Atm the objective are always catchable when you want instead being all syncro open and locked.

RoR system: no lock timer
AoR system: individual lock timer
New system: collective lock timers

Ror was an inversion in this field.

[dansari]

even here i cant completely agree that Order has any bigger advantage than Destro RangeDPS

Because most order play bad BWs or useless classes in orvr. You can't expect to have 1 BW, 1 sniper engy, 2 WHs, 3 WLs, and 3 SWs in your warband and go up against a somewhat competent destro warband with that. You'll get obliterated by the greenskin kite squad, which will control all of your movements with no-immunity sticky feetz and squig m2. You'll also get obliterated by an 8 tank warband because all of your single target damage will be useless.

You want to break through a destro funnel? 8 tanks guarding 6 BW + 2 SL: BW build to m2 (with tactic takes 15s tops) and drop R&D on the frontline while SL pop Rampage to clean up anything that lived. Goodbye frontline. Hello zealots. PUG Order's DPS problem is that everyone wants to play a dps class that doesn't fit with the composition or they're bad at dps. You can be a good WH and excel in premade bands that have a lax composition (in NA at least.. with 1/4 the pop of EU). You can contribute as a SW if you're running supportive tactics and focusing key targets. But those good players are so few and far between in the PUG environment, and some piece of the puzzle is always missing (whether it be you have 2 tanks for 24 people or 1 heal per group).