Shield Warrior Priest underperformance even with BiS gear

[Hazmy]

Rubbish, re-read your own post.

You yourself are arguing for both the lack of healing and viability of Shield Warrior Priest, whereas now you point out other players without knowing the context and other weak excuses like pugs and bad players.

Your data is almost useless to consider from a useful statistical point of view. 50 Scenarios? For any of these numbers to matter, it would need to be a significantly higher pool and over the course of months due to the nature of RoR, where if you play 1 afternoon or even a weekend you just keep matching against the same players and with the same players with no performance shift whatsoever.

Healing is dependent on the quality of the fights, who you fight against and how much damage is taken. It is a completely invalid stat to base any average analysis on, because even with a wide pool of examples the IQR of your statistics, the middle range, is so stretched that your results are useless.

Average Healing is a functionally useless stat to determine any accuracy.

Also basing any real balance feedback on the average performance? The average ror player unfortunately, but objectively is so underperforming and below the bar that it is in fact one of the reasons the server is struggling to heal itself and become fun again.

Regarding Iyvans, until 1 month ago when we all stopped going to City together, he was still playing Shield Warrior Priest and Shield DOK every single city - well mostly DOK because he had to play Destro against us and he was outhealing all healers, who are also considered top in their classes. How do I know this? Because I played and we analyzed the cities together.

City 1 Top Healer: https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... 3838eb0687
City 2 Top Healer: https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... d5834dce1b
City 3 Top Healer: https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... bfdf4892c1

And no, I say that Shield Warrior Priest is still insane healer in both Blob Fights, Warband vs Warband and City. While 1 ability is most of your healing, you still have significant amount of utility you HAVE to use as shield Warrior Priest, that already makes it an active class to bounce buffs around - so it's far from a 1-2 button class. ( Most classes are 3-4 buttons anyway in ror, why are we pretending they aren't )

Tanks can learn how to guard-swap, it is not rocket-science. DPS and Healers can learn better positioning, using de-taunt and be aware of the enemy team. Yes even Shield Priest shouldn't be in the middle, but on the sides hitting a healer - and targeting someone taking damage in the group.

RoR is a team-game, pugs being **** should not be an excuse, nor is it that there aren't enough tanks on the server. There's more to the game than the 2/2/2 comp and the same boring gameplay everyone has been doing for the past 4 years. Classes are supposed to support each other and so do players - classes and design of the game should not be further dumbed down because the playerbase is slowly becoming too lazy to play a video game and learn it.

We all know where that got us, and it's this clown-fiesta of people logging off after 1 defeat or PvDoor with 100% AAO only. Yeah let's make it so Tanks and Healers are not needed so everyone can just make a 24 dps warband mindlessly.

With that said, feel free to buff Shield Priest, it is already an op healer - if it gets buffed then the people who actually know how to play it will be even more overpowered.

Specifically the changes you are asking for are OUTRAGEOUSLY overtuned, almost every point.

TLDR: Put a Guard on your Shield Priest - and tell one of the useless DPS player who doesn't press buttons and deals 0 damage anyway, to play a Tank instead.

[gersy]

Rubbish, re-read your own post.

You yourself are arguing for both the lack of healing and viability of Shield Warrior Priest, whereas now you point out other players without knowing the context and other weak excuses like pugs and bad players.

Your data is almost useless to consider from a useful statistical point of view. 50 Scenarios? For any of these numbers to matter, it would need to be a significantly higher pool and over the course of months due to the nature of RoR, where if you play 1 afternoon or even a weekend you just keep matching against the same players and with the same players with no performance shift whatsoever.

Healing is dependent on the quality of the fights, who you fight against and how much damage is taken. It is a completely invalid stat to base any average analysis on, because even with a wide pool of examples the IQR of your statistics, the middle range, is so stretched that your results are useless.

Average Healing is a functionally useless stat to determine any accuracy.

Also basing any real balance feedback on the average performance? The average ror player unfortunately, but objectively is so underperforming and below the bar that it is in fact one of the reasons the server is struggling to heal itself and become fun again.

Regarding Iyvans, until 1 month ago when we all stopped going to City together, he was still playing Shield Warrior Priest and Shield DOK every single city - well mostly DOK because he had to play Destro against us and he was outhealing all healers, who are also considered top in their classes. How do I know this? Because I played and we analyzed the cities together.

City 1 Top Healer: https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... 3838eb0687
City 2 Top Healer: https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... d5834dce1b
City 3 Top Healer: https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... bfdf4892c1

And no, I say that Shield Warrior Priest is still insane healer in both Blob Fights, Warband vs Warband and City. While 1 ability is most of your healing, you still have significant amount of utility you HAVE to use as shield Warrior Priest, that already makes it an active class to bounce buffs around - so it's far from a 1-2 button class. ( Most classes are 3-4 buttons anyway in ror, why are we pretending they aren't )

Tanks can learn how to guard-swap, it is not rocket-science. DPS and Healers can learn better positioning, using de-taunt and be aware of the enemy team. Yes even Shield Priest shouldn't be in the middle, but on the sides hitting a healer - and targeting someone taking damage in the group.

RoR is a team-game, pugs being **** should not be an excuse, nor is it that there aren't enough tanks on the server. There's more to the game than the 2/2/2 comp and the same boring gameplay everyone has been doing for the past 4 years. Classes are supposed to support each other and so do players - classes and design of the game should not be further dumbed down because the playerbase is slowly becoming too lazy to play a video game and learn it.

We all know where that got us, and it's this clown-fiesta of people logging off after 1 defeat or PvDoor with 100% AAO only. Yeah let's make it so Tanks and Healers are not needed so everyone can just make a 24 dps warband mindlessly.

With that said, feel free to buff Shield Priest, it is already an op healer - if it gets buffed then the people who actually know how to play it will be even more overpowered.

Specifically the changes you are asking for are OUTRAGEOUSLY overtuned, almost every point.

TLDR: Put a Guard on your Shield Priest - and tell one of the useless DPS player who doesn't press buttons and deals 0 damage anyway, to play a Tank instead.

+1 completely true and explains exactly what i was trying to illustrate in my post as well

[Mortgrimm]

In my opinion just get rid of the shield thing, even the word itself.
You can go book and be a ranged healer. Or you go 2h dps build and have dmg but almost no heal except Divine Assault. Other option is the middle tree with 2h weapon. So the devs have to change this. Here should be a balance between dmg and heal. Like book - 100% heal, 2h dps - 100% dmg and 2h melee healer - 50% dmg + 50% heal. This is just an example for how i see it. Dunno if this will be even possible.
But like this u open 3 totally different playstyles. Warband, solo or duo and small scale. Everything would be fine.

I remember the overtuned shield build after the initial patch. It can´t be possible to fight for 15 minutes with 2 shield priests and 2 tanks against 2 warbands (pugs, i have to say, but still) and don´t die. Even it was fun as f..., it was way too much.
Then the devs had two options. Just tune the healing down a bit and adjust the modifier or break it.

@Kpi - What i miss in your calculation is the dmg part. U almost cap str and have the feeling u don´t heal as much as a book priest. Like i mentioned above, this shouldn´t be the case anyway. I love the melee healer aspect (i try to avoid "shield") as u support with dmg and have good heal. Maybe the modifier for the lifetap part could get another look as u are effected by double hd almost all the time. Also the costs for Sigmars Will down to 60.
I personally stopped playing the build cause i didn´t wanna take a tank away from a dps. I know, u can go defensive but then u loose the healing from lifetaps as it requires dmg, means str.

I think this will be a never ending story. And yes, it all depends on what u wanna play. Warband or small scale.