[Magus, Engineer] Buff like in never released patch 1.4.9

[dkabib]

I disagree with this.

If the problem is caused by the ability to stack armor, or excessive armor in general, and therefore only manifests when excessively powerful gear and customisation opportunities enter the game in late T4, deal with that problem rather than trying to change the classes to get around it.

I take the view that if a class fundamentally works in lower tiers and gets broken in T4 not because of newer abilities, but because of much more easily changeable aspects of the late T4 environment, it is T4 that needs to change - not the class.

Sadly, I believe it will be much harder to get support for reducing T4 power inflation than it will be to tweak classes, but at some point this issue has to be faced.

I fully agree with you there.
My Engineer right now (rifle spec) is doing amazing, it's very satisfying, doesn't feel weak or op, feels just right.
It only saddens me to remember how poor they perform at T4, as well as the Magus.

I'd love to see a few tweaks here and there, maybe not at the class itself, but anything aimed to make those 2 better in the long run is a welcome change.

[Maydd]

Rifleman ---> Weapon Skill is needed, with 6-7 good +16 ws talis u can improve your damage

Bomber ---> Ballistic as hell, bombs are all hex workin' on Corporeal Damage, except one that is pure damage, rollin' on balistic as the same.

Thinker ---> IMHO Ballistic/Tough/Willpower. Why? I'm not mad, yes a little but, think. You're in close combat so you've to be more resistant, tactics needed: Ballistic, Armor and @ level 30 one at your choice, I love tracer round for 15% more crit. Why willpower? Because the ****' keg works on this and you can improve your disrupt ratio (with deft defender @ full bore with 18%). The keg is vital support to healers and yes, it's a ****' leechin' machine :p

So, Thinker is a good path in support of one of others. Choose your career. Rifleman is more static, Bomber/Thinker is very fun, but very hard. If you fail the move, you're dead. Azgal Ahbar.

[heteryk]

I don't know if this has been already done but once gear stats will be fixed (str for engi) they should beome a little bit stronger. Maybe just maybe that will be enough.

[dkabib]

I don't know if this has been already done but once gear stats will be fixed (str for engi) they should beome a little bit stronger. Maybe just maybe that will be enough.

Why is it so hard to find an off hand with Ballistics?!!??!!

[Maydd]

The best one (imho) is Fangbreaker Spanner +20 wound +20 weapon skill. With a nice talis +16 or more you can handle a very nice offhand

[foof]

I disagree with this.

If the problem is caused by the ability to stack armor, or excessive armor in general, and therefore only manifests when excessively powerful gear and customisation opportunities enter the game in late T4, deal with that problem rather than trying to change the classes to get around it.

I take the view that if a class fundamentally works in lower tiers and gets broken in T4 not because of newer abilities, but because of much more easily changeable aspects of the late T4 environment, it is T4 that needs to change - not the class.

Sadly, I believe it will be much harder to get support for reducing T4 power inflation than it will be to tweak classes, but at some point this issue has to be faced.

I disagree with this as it pertains to the Engie and Magus. Overall your theory is valid, however, in this specific situation, it is not. Both the Engineer and Magus are absolutely god awful classes, from T1-T4. They is never a point in this game where they can be considered good in comparison to any other RDPS class and even DPS Supports.

I had a RR95 Magus, so armor is not pertinent to the discussion relating to that class, and it was still pathetic as a class. Seeing as the Engineer is even worse, having to deal with armor, and the problem with these classes is not based on power inflation. It is based on a horrible archetype/class design.

Without writing an essay on it, these classes have always dealt with these base problem:

Mediocre damage, mediocre survivability, mediocre (or even bad really) utility, mediocre (or even bad) CC.

They don't do anything particularly well. Outside of let group healers have stupid high numbers in scenarios. As is stands, these classes have no real purpose outside of pullbots.

For everyone stating that their Engineer is fine. I have honestly yet to see a single Engineer who is any sort of real threat at level 26 at the moment. Their damage is a laughable joke compared to SWs and BWs, their CC can't stop anything for long(esp with the super low duration stagger), and they are just about as easy to kill as SWs/BWs and have way worse kiting potential. I'd rather fight Engineers than DPS AMs and RPs. At least DPS AMs have a heal debuff.

[Jaycub]

I disagree with this.

If the problem is caused by the ability to stack armor, or excessive armor in general, and therefore only manifests when excessively powerful gear and customisation opportunities enter the game in late T4, deal with that problem rather than trying to change the classes to get around it.

I take the view that if a class fundamentally works in lower tiers and gets broken in T4 not because of newer abilities, but because of much more easily changeable aspects of the late T4 environment, it is T4 that needs to change - not the class.

Sadly, I believe it will be much harder to get support for reducing T4 power inflation than it will be to tweak classes, but at some point this issue has to be faced.

Engineer is one of those classes that can be alright if played correctly, it of course has a ceiling lower than pretty much any order DPS. I think the biggest problem with engineer is you have access to just tons of skills, and newer/casual players might have a harder time understand the class and end up choosing inefficient specs and rotations but don't really notice they are doing bad because the class is really damn fun to play... if that makes sense. It sort of like bad techies players in dota :^)

The main problem is their main source of single target dmg is physical, but is also heavily supplemented by corp damage. Meaning you are forced to get weapon skill (because lack of tactics/abilities that help them deal with armor) but when you build weapon skill you are getting absolutely nothing out of it from your corp damage abilities. Magus does not have this problem, which is what makes them inherently better, even if engineer has AA and a better M2.

[Zxul]

Ahh well. As somebody who had a t4 magus and loved it there, here are my 2 cents.

Biggest problem with magus is not magus- its the people which are trying to play a class with toughness tactic/armor buff/absorb tactic/self heal as a sorc.

On my t4 magus, going all out with armor talis/toughness, I had 3.9 k or so armor/800 sh toughness/orange resists/ full TB- more defense then quite a few dps tanks. In addition, I had a very nice racial absorb tactic, as well as 2.3 k or so heal on 1 min CD (Aegis of Orange Fire).

I would start from distance with all the instacast dots, then get close and finish targets with Havoc heavy nukes, cast with 50% cast time (because of Close Quarters tactic).

I regularly took on 2-3 order, including many times of higher lvls, and killed them just fine.

There is no problem with the class- problem is with people who try to play class with every possible tank mage tool as a glass cannon. I rerolled from t4 sorc to magus- and never regretted the decision.

[Jaycub]

Yes but that build is awful for 6v6/SC's, Most people that care enough about balance tend to favor that style of play over ORvR.

[Zxul]

Yes but that build is awful for 6v6/SC's, Most people that care enough about balance tend to favor that style of play over ORvR.

So? Wh also isn't exactly the best class for 6v6/SC's- does it means that it is underpowered in t4?

Sorc from other hand is awful for solo OrRvR- does it makes it underpowered?

Different classes a good in different situations. Classes like magus/dps dok/we are good in ORvR- while classes like sorc/choppa are good for 6v6/SC's. You cannot expect every class to be good in every situation- so when choosing what to play, choose according to your preferred play style.