Dual Wield and Greatweapon balance

[mistgun]

I think its a great change Aza, That said i think changes like this, you (developers) should not make a tread about and just do the change for 1-2 weeks, monitor the change and see how the numbers look IN-GAME, not by what ppl think or by opinions or thoughts they get out their ass but by actual hard numbers and game play. No one is going to know if its a good change or bad change until we can actually test it. Someones opinion SHOULD NOT BE A DECIDING FACTOR. If it works, perfect, if not then change it back. easy. This is a ALPHA server and you guys are letting ppl forget that by giving in to every complaint on why not to do something. They need to get over it and reminded that this is a alpha TEST server. You guys are the ones bringing this game back, you guys need to make the decisions for things like this (you guys haven't lets us down yet and no one here, i don't care how much effort they put into the alpha server, don't pay you guys a dime to do what you guys have done, so just keep going that way and don't be intimidated by ppls egos and "how well they know every detail and outcome of the game") Every time you go to the community for every little thing it gets derailed or turn down for the simple fact that no matter what the change is, positive or negative for destro OR order, there will always be ppl against it. On top of that when you listen to what the opinions are in the forums your only listening to MAYBE 25-30% of the actual player base because not all 1000+ players that play this game are on this thread giving you there opinion. So there will never be any progression going this route.

If you keep doing this the treads are just going to always keep getting derailed from topic and shut down just because a few ppl don't agree. Your only slowing down the progression of balancing classes and progression of the game itself with out testing in game things like this.

One of the main reasons Live went bad is because of all the cry babies and for any little thing that wasn't for them or just because they didn't want the change they would cry about and fight. That slowed down the progression in live. DON'T LET THE SAME THING HAPPEN HERE. I can already tell a lot of those self entitled, know it all are here.

You guys are the developers, When its a BIG change that might make an actual game breaking change, then fine i understand ask the community, but for little things like this that we can test and see IN GAME how it works (not by what ppl THINK it might be like) just do it, announce its just to test and see how it goes. Your never going to get your answer in treads like this, everything is just going to be shelved like so many other ideas you guys have had.

Again this is a alpha TEST server, ppl need to accept that...

Sorry for the long rant guys. Just tiered of every idea that comes out being shelved or stopped just because ppl didn't agree without having any test done or actual game play to see if it was good or bad. I hope the DEVS will reconsider this change and at-list try it out as that's what your suppose to do on a test server.

Sorry for my spelling and grammar, English is not my first languish.

end of random rant.

[Tesq]

i dont agree, on the 2h = more burst which for me is not righ

dual weild have give acces

-more proc
-scale better with auto attack speed decrease (both from skills and sov armor)
-more crits

-2nd weapons chance to proc another auto attack
--scale better with auto attack speed decrease (both from skills and sov armor)
--2nd weapon procs
--2nd weapon chance to crit

---some classes have acces to crit tactic which make ableto proc an additiona auto attack as a 1 attack more directly by a great weapon definettly increasint the total damage over x seconds.

Basically every time you have a 1% speed decrese it count as x2 on every dual weild class
this mean a choppa is better in burst damages with dual weild than 2h for exemple( you argument differently k but for me it's this way, the same discussion may be different for other classes, as the exemple of white lion.

I do find that while the 10% dodge would be fine, i not see why a shielded tank should not have a 10% disrupt while it should a 2h tank...(k balance reasons still not feel right)

which bring me back to bretin post that maybe it's too early for a 2h change at the moment cos most of classes are still not in their best form and so a general change that don't take in account the variety of those classes and so could only be problematic.

[Vaul]

I'd probably give 2H a bonus to critical damage but would keep the idea on backburner until T4 because of reasons stated by Bretin.

[Azarael]

Wrong direction. If 2h tanks lose out on Guard (which they should, they're opting for a less defensive setup) they should be given something that allows them to counter foe Guards.

This was mooted on live for a while and canned due among other things, to the fact that swordmasters are effective 2 hander tanks, indeed they were originally designed without shields at all and before that the plan was to make the White Lion the elf tank class but it was too messy to have a tank with a pet. Losing guard would require a significant rebalance of the swordmaster class.

I should have been more clear. I was referring to the loss of Block. I know that Mythic tried and failed at having Guard require a shield and that's not an idea I would ever propose.

That said i think changes like this, you (developers) should not make a tread about and just do the change for 1-2 weeks, monitor the change and see how the numbers look IN-GAME, not by what ppl think or by opinions or thoughts they get out their ass but by actual hard numbers and game play.

Using the live server to push undiscussed changes, especially when I am not an expert on the game, is the fast track to an empty server. I post ideas here specifically so that knowledgeable members of the community can have their input on them and point out flaws that I may not have foreseen.

In the future, we will use a private server for the purpose of testing changes, because while I do agree that theorycrafting can be overstated and is never perfect, I believe the correct way to handle this situation is to trial competing changes for a while in a private environment with good players and view the effect.

[Karast]

I liked the idea of the parry strike-through for 2h and I think it is a good idea, but I am not sure if it does enough to counteract the insane proc rates.

But that might be more of a problem with the procs and their cooldowns / power than with weapon bonuses.

So you might need to come at this from the proc side of things as well.

[nydig]

The biggest problem WL had was super high armor in t4 and the fact they are always AP starved with higher then normal ap skills in their burst rotation. Thats why they fell behind in t4 when you pounce to someone use your whole burst dont land the kill then you are stuck with basically nothing but auto attacks while your target is healed back to full.

That being said i feel one of the biggest mistakes mythic did on live was do general class changes that effected everyone instead of going on a case by case basis. Instead of making a sweeping change like this why not look at the classes and say ok 2h is lacking this class is in a good spot leave it but this one could use some love give it a buff.

For example you have a class like the kotbs the last thing they need is any kind of love.

TL:DR if you are going to give out buffs for 2h give it to the classes that need the buffs not just every class with the ability to equip a 2h weapon.

[Jaycub]

2h knight gives up dirty tricks for virtually nothing atm, and its not until lvl 40 that they get anything specific to 2h. There is literally nothing wrong with buffing 2h knight because it is the weakest thing you can do on that class. All the good **** that allows them to do damage they have with s/b spec.

[Penril]

I do not, melee dps by virtue of their entire repertoire are in melee and thats where the benefit from their weapon should be, they dont have auxiliary defences to stack up on top of a random ranged defences and you are forgetting about such things as riposte, even ignoring that there is still significantly more benefit from + parry than + ranged defences for a MDPS.

I would take +5% parry over +10% dodge/disrupt on my mdps because of where I am doing my fighting and what I am fighting against and where my threat will be in combat. If rdps have the drop on me at range 10% isnt going to do jack, I will still die, if Im in melee combat that 10% parry can be the difference between victory or death. Hell, block strikethrough is more use to a mdps than random ranged defences because as a MDPS you would be losing an offensive capacity (though crap) for a small defensive one that isnt stacking on any core abilities (unlike tanks)

+parry strikethrough or just a cloned +parry buff is by far the cleanest way

Look like you are talking about 1v1.

[Tesq]

2h knight gives up dirty tricks for virtually nothing atm, and its not until lvl 40 that they get anything specific to 2h. There is literally nothing wrong with buffing 2h knight because it is the weakest thing you can do on that class. All the good **** that allows them to do damage they have with s/b spec.

so are we gonna start a discuss about a 75% ignore amor when all procs are active? With a self cast 50% damage debuff? and also high parry? Not that is not so much good x se but it dosen't mean it requrie a huge buff either.

[KARNICERO]

great do iz azrael for a better RoR and more war