Pug Only Scenario

[Bozzax]

Im talking about all the way back in beta. Scenarios really are just a hangover from the beta when there were no keeps and rvr was just for casual play in the open lakes with undefended bos to cap. Scenarios were meant to be the organised rvr and gave the majority of vp. It went down awfully as you just had premades standing around queued and not getting involved with their realm. So they changed it totally. Introduced keeps, guild claiming and turned scenarios into a bit of fun on the side. The rvr then became the place where you are meant to be doing the majority of your rvr and getting involved with the realm.

As we saw Carrie even went and spent what little development time we had for this game pandering to the vocal minority of premades and made a game specifically for them. As they were just the vocal minority it tanked massively and **** us all. Many of us here have a long memory and remember all the bad decisions and what could have been if they had kept to the vision the beta testers helped mythic establish. Im pretty sure if they could have their time over and redo the game on the advice from daoc players and make the game about rvr and not have scenarios. The emphasis on rvr and no scenarios is what makes daoc the best pvp mmo with the strongest community theres ever been. War just wanted to take on wow and dumb it down for the mainstream with arenas. Trying and failing to do everything instead of just rvr well.

Just doing a quick search for threads on mmorpg from beta and you see what I mean.
http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/132 ... -scenarios
Scenarios really hurt the rvr side of the game.

Its a shame they had to change the whole emphasis of the game in beta. Really it was dead before it got going as you cant rework a whole mmo like that if the core gameplay is ****.

What you write about the beta was before I started playing and I understand you better now. Well I'll try to clarify my angle.

I've always loved (roaming and) SCs even as pug player it is just my kind of game.

I fear that if we allow these different little mini games (SCs not part of the campaign for example) we create the perfect breeding ground for ORVRers-6man hate even within the same realm. to some degree the same is true for PvE.

However if they manage to give these diff player types within a realm a shared context while doing what they like I think it can reduce tension and possibly restore some Realm pride.

PS. LOL I just remembered one time when you dotted my DOK up in the lake so bad I almost **** my pants and had all sort of problems staying alive.

DS. We both hate the she and her offspring

[Jaycub]

I was more talking about high level / organized play in terms of RDPS, so premade vs premade scenarios.

While it was just speculation, it brings up an interesting topic imo. Let's just for the sake of this say that I'm right and RDPS is again not considered meta in t4 and MDPS groups are king. But that would only end up being true for organized premade scenarios, RDPS would still end up balanced in pug v pug if not prefered.

So my question would be... Should the game be balanced around the highest level of play (premade vs premade), or around the majority (pugs)? If RDPS indeed is almost never played by any serious premade?

Spoiler:

Again I am not saying this is how it is going to be, just creating a possible scenario to ask a question

[Ekundu01]

I was more talking about high level / organized play in terms of RDPS, so premade vs premade scenarios.

While it was just speculation, it brings up an interesting topic imo. Let's just for the sake of this say that I'm right and RDPS is again not considered meta in t4 and MDPS groups are king. But that would only end up being true for organized premade scenarios, RDPS would still end up balanced in pug v pug if not prefered.

So my question would be... Should the game be balanced around the highest level of play (premade vs premade), or around the majority (pugs)? If RDPS indeed is almost never played by any serious premade?

Spoiler:

Again I am not saying this is how it is going to be, just creating a possible scenario to ask a question

IMO The game should really be balanced around being viable options for all and not what team comp is the fotm. If someone chooses to be support spec they should be able to perform in that role as should a dps no matter range or melee should be able to perform in that role no matter what class they are.

If all team comps could be viable in a premade set up then it wouldn't matter if you want to run range or melee set ups and everyone could play how they want to play as well as play the class they want to play. As it stands now there are just some classes that will just flat out not be taken in premades because of the limitations of the class.

The only problem with this is in order to fix it classes will have to be given things that others have and would take away the unique aspect of the class but overall it could mean that players could play the class and spec they want and not be excluded from most premades if they played the so called underdog class.

[Liandel]

I was more talking about high level / organized play in terms of RDPS, so premade vs premade scenarios.

While it was just speculation, it brings up an interesting topic imo. Let's just for the sake of this say that I'm right and RDPS is again not considered meta in t4 and MDPS groups are king. But that would only end up being true for organized premade scenarios, RDPS would still end up balanced in pug v pug if not prefered.

So my question would be... Should the game be balanced around the highest level of play (premade vs premade), or around the majority (pugs)? If RDPS indeed is almost never played by any serious premade?

Spoiler:

Again I am not saying this is how it is going to be, just creating a possible scenario to ask a question

BW/Sorc can timestamp higher in one GCD than any other class in the game. SW/SH are more than viable. Some of the best groups ran a 1 tank, 2 rdps, 1 mdps and 2 healer setup because the RDPS did not need as much support as the MDPS, so that allowed for an additional dps slot that a 2 mdps premade would require an additional tank for. Also, RDPS are better at getting melee to overextend past guard/adequate heals and thus separate enemy groups so that they can be picked apart better than a pure melee setup can. RDPS are also ideal for zerg vs zerg fights as they can engage the enemy with limited risk to themselves, thus needing less in the way of heal support.

RDPS is and was played by "serious premades" all the time, what game are you remembering that I'm not?

~Liandel
RR38 WL of <Obliteration>

[Jaycub]

^I explained what I was saying at the beginning of my post and again in the spoiler just in case people forgot :^)

It's just another question I think has to be answered by the devs and playerbase on top of other questions like "Should the game be balanced around 6v6, scenarios, ORvR. 24v24, etc...?

[Tesq]

^I explained what I was saying at the beginning of my post and again in the spoiler just in case people forgot :^)

It's just another question I think has to be answered by the devs and playerbase on top of other questions like "Should the game be balanced around 6v6, scenarios, ORvR. 24v24, etc...?

it depend from the skill impact, you cant balance aoe in 6vs 6 as aoe hit 9 ppl which is not where there are 9 ppl, it need to be balanced 12+ or possibly 24 which is where aoe get serious.

[Nameless]

rdps cant do their full dmg potential when under pressure while mdps could. So that is why at live you barely saw at 6v6 community organized events many setups with rdps. For orvr they are good cos engaging vs higher numbers wont add additional risk for rdps and they indeed need less babysitting from the tanks.
But to say their brust is higher than mdps is just incorrect. After all magical rdps dont got any benefit from their weapon dps, no AA, and got abit slow cycle to build their spike.

So yea, we saw every single mdps being working part of competative premades but still lack to see engies/maguses or dps backline healers to be taken seriously for that role...

[catholicism198]

Yay. just got out of a match against a premade. So much fun. Real challenge for them. 0-1 emblems a match means I only need 800+ more SC battles to get a weapon.

./signed
again and again.

[Tiggo]

you do realize in a pug vs pug sc one has to lose also? its not a win for everyone there...

perhaps there should be a pvpve sc for those not able to socialize where they can grind their precious emblems alone and solo ...

[Scrilian]

perhaps there should be a pvpve sc for those not able to socialize where they can grind their precious emblems alone and solo ...

This