Reintroductions and reflections.

[Kragg]

Cant post from my main account as forum banned and still cant send pm's so i will just post here in the hope i dont get further punishment on my ingame account despite not having much interest in the game at the moment.

Firstly welcome back Aza, despite being a critic of your work and at times taking it a bit far the server has missed you.

The server has lost its way and i would go back to when sigmarpriest left as the starting point to this, his ambassador role if u like has been missed, i wont go into the details because those who were around then know what i am speaking about, it only got worse and worse since them times.

I can remember speaking to certain staff members about the situation who agreed that its a sorry state but were unwilling to stand up and be counted and told me there is no point as nobody listens.

Leadership and forgetting the founding principles of the server have changed and changed for the worse.

It would appear some ppl have joined the team for the main purpose of having some sort of status and being able to beat their chest without facing the consequences that a player would.

The players were once involved with the project even if thats just creating backgrounds for yaliskah to use but they felt like they were valued, for a long time now players have not been valued at all.

Bans have been handed out for stuff that staff have been guilty of and often rules that are/were (havent read the rules recently) there to protect players and staff have been ignored in favour of staff, it should work both ways as it has caused problems.
Not wanting to beat a dead horse but my main account in particular, banned for a personal message to someone away from ror who was a friend despite rules stating this isnt banable and then forum banned for quoting a staff member and changing what they wrote to something they often say( and since then ppl also quoting and changing what a staff member wrote and facing no action) and then skipping the 30 day ban straight to perma, not bothered if i stay perma forum banned but it doesnt follow the rules and shows the i do what i want attitude.


Leadership is the biggest thing for me, aggressive attitudes of staff and unwillingness to accept blame has created a place where its normal to be a **** despite a key rule saying dont be a ****, 1 person in particular has caused this and you can see how its rubbed off on others who have joined the staff, staff who would normally speak with respect and set a good example over time changed into sarcastic ignorant ppl.


As for game balance a lot of good things have been done but also some bad, naturally ppl will focus on the bad, its just how humans are but a lot of the bad stuff has been left for to long and i really feel as if the community needs to once again be involved in helping make decisions, let ppl argue about stuff dont always jump in and start threatening players with punishments, sit back and just watch it unfold, when staff get involved it only ends 1 way.


I was always very passionate about this project (at times taking my point to far) being the only game i have bothered to stay with and it sucks to see how its ended up.

I really wish for the future of the server the leadership is sorted out, staff start to set a good example and the community once again can have a say on things without being punished.

This presents a very one-sided take on the whole issue tho. Highlighted some parts in your reply what could be said is just as big a part of the current problems as the problems you bring forth. Your contribution stating how team members turned in to ignorant people is not very helpfull. You could consider why the dev teams reacts in such a way and how that developed over the years.

Just my two coppers.

[altharion1]

Spoiler:

Cant post from my main account as forum banned and still cant send pm's so i will just post here in the hope i dont get further punishment on my ingame account despite not having much interest in the game at the moment.

Firstly welcome back Aza, despite being a critic of your work and at times taking it a bit far the server has missed you.

The server has lost its way and i would go back to when sigmarpriest left as the starting point to this, his ambassador role if u like has been missed, i wont go into the details because those who were around then know what i am speaking about, it only got worse and worse since them times.

I can remember speaking to certain staff members about the situation who agreed that its a sorry state but were unwilling to stand up and be counted and told me there is no point as nobody listens.

Leadership and forgetting the founding principles of the server have changed and changed for the worse.

It would appear some ppl have joined the team for the main purpose of having some sort of status and being able to beat their chest without facing the consequences that a player would.

The players were once involved with the project even if thats just creating backgrounds for yaliskah to use but they felt like they were valued, for a long time now players have not been valued at all.

Bans have been handed out for stuff that staff have been guilty of and often rules that are/were (havent read the rules recently) there to protect players and staff have been ignored in favour of staff, it should work both ways as it has caused problems.
Not wanting to beat a dead horse but my main account in particular, banned for a personal message to someone away from ror who was a friend despite rules stating this isnt banable and then forum banned for quoting a staff member and changing what they wrote to something they often say( and since then ppl also quoting and changing what a staff member wrote and facing no action) and then skipping the 30 day ban straight to perma, not bothered if i stay perma forum banned but it doesnt follow the rules and shows the i do what i want attitude.


Leadership is the biggest thing for me, aggressive attitudes of staff and unwillingness to accept blame has created a place where its normal to be a **** despite a key rule saying dont be a ****, 1 person in particular has caused this and you can see how its rubbed off on others who have joined the staff, staff who would normally speak with respect and set a good example over time changed into sarcastic ignorant ppl.


As for game balance a lot of good things have been done but also some bad, naturally ppl will focus on the bad, its just how humans are but a lot of the bad stuff has been left for to long and i really feel as if the community needs to once again be involved in helping make decisions, let ppl argue about stuff dont always jump in and start threatening players with punishments, sit back and just watch it unfold, when staff get involved it only ends 1 way.


I was always very passionate about this project (at times taking my point to far) being the only game i have bothered to stay with and it sucks to see how its ended up.

I really wish for the future of the server the leadership is sorted out, staff start to set a good example and the community once again can have a say on things without being punished.

This presents a very one-sided take on the whole issue tho. Highlighted some parts in your reply what could be said is just as big a part of the current problems as the problems you bring forth. Your contribution stating how team members turned in to ignorant people is not very helpfull. You could consider why the dev teams reacts in such a way and how that developed over the years.

Just my two coppers.

tOp QualITy p0st MAte +1

[Acidic]

Cant post from my main account as forum banned

To me this is the example of what happens when you start to show doubt in previous decisions , banned should mean banned , and as with anything when policies change some retroactive adjustments are made but suspect the “current appeal wave” takes away from the forum rules in general.
Sorry don’t know who you are or why you were banned but surprising as hell that you feel it’s ok to flaunt the ban

[Darosh]

This presents a very one-sided take on the whole issue tho. Highlighted some parts in your reply what could be said is just as big a part of the current problems as the problems you bring forth. Your contribution stating how team members turned in to ignorant people is not very helpfull. You could consider why the dev teams reacts in such a way and how that developed over the years.

Just my two coppers.

One-sided? Do you care to give your two cents about what could possibly lead devs to 'accidently' issuing a IP ban stating 'Just a cancer.' as reason, reverting it and brushing it off as a casual and innocent mistake ~ with Hargrim admitting to it being part of casual internal communication to regard players as 'cancer' and, evidently, playing with the thought of IP banning at random (without any actual breach of rules or alike being committed by those hit)?
I figure Natherul managed to revert it just in time to prevent a justified shitstorm.

I for one happened to try and check the forums during work hours to find myself banned alongside gawd knows howany others ~ many of them likely unaware of any of this happening or just blissfully ignorant about it.
I wonder whether the thread is still around that very, very briefly covered the incident.

I am thrilled to read your take on it.

[Natherul]

This presents a very one-sided take on the whole issue tho. Highlighted some parts in your reply what could be said is just as big a part of the current problems as the problems you bring forth. Your contribution stating how team members turned in to ignorant people is not very helpfull. You could consider why the dev teams reacts in such a way and how that developed over the years.

Just my two coppers.

One-sided? Do you care to give your two cents about what could possibly lead devs to 'accidently' issuing a IP ban stating 'Just a cancer.' as reason, reverting it and brushing it off as a casual and innocent mistake ~ with Hargrim admitting to it being part of casual internal communication to regard players as 'cancer' and, evidently, playing with the thought of IP banning at random (without any actual breach of rules or alike being committed by those hit)?
I figure Natherul managed to revert it just in time to prevent a justified shitstorm.

I for one happened to try and check the forums during work hours to find myself banned alongside gawd knows howany others ~ many of them likely unaware of any of this happening or just blissfully ignorant about it.
I wonder whether the thread is still around that very, very briefly covered the incident.

I am thrilled to read your take on it.

The message was not great, and the ban was caused by a system that has since been fixed but in essence it caused a IP ban to affect ALL IPs. It was targeted to a spammer but yes it applied to everyone.

[Kragg]

This presents a very one-sided take on the whole issue tho. Highlighted some parts in your reply what could be said is just as big a part of the current problems as the problems you bring forth. Your contribution stating how team members turned in to ignorant people is not very helpfull. You could consider why the dev teams reacts in such a way and how that developed over the years.

Just my two coppers.

One-sided? Do you care to give your two cents about what could possibly lead devs to 'accidently' issuing a IP ban stating 'Just a cancer.' as reason, reverting it and brushing it off as a casual and innocent mistake ~ with Hargrim admitting to it being part of casual internal communication to regard players as 'cancer' and, evidently, playing with the thought of IP banning at random (without any actual breach of rules or alike being committed by those hit)?
I figure Natherul managed to revert it just in time to prevent a justified shitstorm.

I for one happened to try and check the forums during work hours to find myself banned alongside gawd knows howany others ~ many of them likely unaware of any of this happening or just blissfully ignorant about it.
I wonder whether the thread is still around that very, very briefly covered the incident.

I am thrilled to read your take on it.

I wasn't commenting on one case. I clearly state there are problems, big problems really, but the post above highlights one side of the issue. Players have been toxic as hell on pretty much everything. Consider why things have developed to such an extend that we are up in this mess? Don't blame just one side. The community are not exactly boy scouts either, ey?

Just browse the ban appeal forum. I worry for mankind.

[Darosh]

This presents a very one-sided take on the whole issue tho. Highlighted some parts in your reply what could be said is just as big a part of the current problems as the problems you bring forth. Your contribution stating how team members turned in to ignorant people is not very helpfull. You could consider why the dev teams reacts in such a way and how that developed over the years.

Just my two coppers.

One-sided? Do you care to give your two cents about what could possibly lead devs to 'accidently' issuing a IP ban stating 'Just a cancer.' as reason, reverting it and brushing it off as a casual and innocent mistake ~ with Hargrim admitting to it being part of casual internal communication to regard players as 'cancer' and, evidently, playing with the thought of IP banning at random (without any actual breach of rules or alike being committed by those hit)?
I figure Natherul managed to revert it just in time to prevent a justified shitstorm.

I for one happened to try and check the forums during work hours to find myself banned alongside gawd knows howany others ~ many of them likely unaware of any of this happening or just blissfully ignorant about it.
I wonder whether the thread is still around that very, very briefly covered the incident.

I am thrilled to read your take on it.

The message was not great, and the ban was caused by a system that has since been fixed but in essence it caused a IP ban to affect ALL IPs. It was targeted to a spammer but yes it applied to everyone.

Bad attempt, Natherul. Hargrim stated in the very thread it was brought up that it was a sneak peek into your internal communications. Once I get home I'll search the thread, in case of deletion skim through web archives and directly quote Hargrim

Abbd.: Note, your explanation at the time could be summed up as 'Whoops', there was no mention of any of the above.

[Natherul]

Bad attempt, Natherul. Hargrim stated in the very thread it was brought up that it was a sneak peek into your internal communications. Once I get home I'll search the thread, in case of deletion skim through web archives and directly quote Hargrim.

Theres no attempt in what I wrote. What I said was the truth. The old system falsely set all IPs to 127.0.0.1 which caused the issue. This is a purely technical issue as to why it got applied to everyone. And if you refer to the message I said that the message was not great, thats my personal opinion.

EDIT:
The link your looking for btw is:
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=27434&p=310672#p310672
And as for internal communication goes, these messages are only supposed to be seen to the person that got the ban (which is true as the system banned everyone due to the issue described above) so its a reference to a spammer being cancer (which imho is understandable but still less than great message).

[Yaliskah]

The players were once involved with the project even if thats just creating backgrounds for yaliskah to use but they felt like they were valued, for a long time now players have not been valued at all.

I do not know if I understood the sentence correctly. Are you refering to Art Contests?

In general note, relative to your general posts, we can only admit that the relations between the staff and some players are complicated, and have regrettable consequences for all in the end.

I’m not the OP, but I have to express as a representative of the "3rd faction" in this story the point of view on the other side of the curtain.

ALL the people involved in the RoR project as members of the team did it out of passion (as far as I know), and none of them seek any glory (as far as I know) for what it did. If that were the case, I'm afraid he made a mistake and realized that.

That being said, being one of the main initiators of the WarEmu project, then RoR, I can attest to this:

With the progress of the project, the expectations of the community of players became larger, and our mistakes of choice were more and more quickly condemned.

I leave to each one the leisure to imagine what pressure some of us, more exposed than others (and I think that Azarael will be able to attest) have been subject to and have had to endure for all these years, resulting some epidermal reactions.

I will gladly admit that it does not necessarily excuse everything, but what is a game for most of you, brings a whole new aspect to our eyes. We do not play to develop a project. We work hard for a long time, despite the criticisms that can come out and we are led to make sometimes questionable choices that may displease. With the passive-aggressive or aggressive-aggressive consequences that we all know.

Obviously, some will object that we do not listen to the community of players enough, the fact is that the latter is not unanimous. So who to listen to? Who among you is more legitimate than your neighbor to express a choice or a suitable solution? Who is biased? Who is not? Your opinions are important, your suggestions are as important, but without any offense, in the end, the choice is ours. If we are wrong, responsibility rests with us, and with the help of time (and more often the technical means), we try to correct our mistakes. Sometimes it takes a lot of time. Sometimes more is needed.

I committed to this project several months before the closing of the official server. I never wanted to do it to leave a trace of my passage on earth . I did it so I could continue playing. Just stupidly.

And I like to think that everyone who joined me did it for the same reason.

That being said, i can just forge the wish, we all let past behind us, and try our best each other to move on for the best.

[Darosh]

Bad attempt, Natherul. Hargrim stated in the very thread it was brought up that it was a sneak peek into your internal communications. Once I get home I'll search the thread, in case of deletion skim through web archives and directly quote Hargrim.

Theres no attempt in what I wrote. What I said was the truth. The old system falsely set all IPs to 127.0.0.1 which caused the issue. This is a purely technical issue as to why it got applied to everyone. And if you refer to the message I said that the message was not great, thats my personal opinion.

EDIT:
The link your looking for btw is:
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=27434&p=310672#p310672
And as for internal communication goes, these messages are only supposed to be seen to the person that got the ban (which is true as the system banned everyone due to the issue described above) so its a reference to a spammer being cancer (which imho is understandable but still less than great message).

The link you posted is inaccessible, it doesn't turn up on any searches either ~ guess it got deleted or moved to an archive, huh?

Yeah, you see, the guy that opened the thread specifically inquired as to why there are two sets of rules that are evidently arbitarily enforced - cue Hargrim.
Move the thread back to a subforum that is accessible to plebs, let them have their take on what transpired and what kind of 'internal communication' Hargrim - ever so mockingly - referred to.

Abbd.: Painting with the broadest of brushes - hate speech - when - and only when - it suits one, is indeed a message so bad it is beyond comprehension.

E: A word.