How to get ROR population up.

[GrishnakBlagtoof]

How TF is a UNFAIR advantage if the addon was accesible to EVERYONE??

What if the skilled players that know their rotation and can make fast decisions in-battle and do great simply don't WANT to be forced to use a cheap automating addon that plays for them? Just "because it's available for everyone to cheese" doesn't make it better.

You are new, and never experienced, used or seen NB in action. So I can accept your ignorance on the topic. For people who say NB was a *literal 1 button that plays for you* (your exact words); whoever told you that was the case they are lying with gross exaggeration, dont fall for it. Read my above post.

You dont lose because other side had an addon *that plays for them*. You lose because you were outnumbered, you were outgeared, you were a bad player who doesnt understand how to position, or dance behind enemy, or keep enemy from dancing behind you, you were too stupid to be lured into a spot where you were easy picking. That's why people lose. If you lost to an NB player who put their CC and burst into one key rotation, it means you suck and would have lost to anyone regardless and you are nowhere near close to point competitive play starts.

So you're essentially saying the same thing this other guy fell back on....telling non-NB that we just can't play well. Well, in regards to NB, we can say the same....if "the game is too complicated for some players" that you "need nb to remain competitive"....which both have been said more than once, then pro-NB players can't play well without their auto-pilot addon, and should work on that because "you are nowhere near close to point competitive play starts" your words exactly.

You didn't answer my question in any way, by the way. What if WE don't want to HAVE to used an automated addon that makes all combat boring? Please, by all means, answer this.

I want to see where you guys are coming from, but any time someone brings up a good point, then you guys counter with attacking things like when they joined RoR, or their faction, career, playtime hours, pretty much anything else except for actually refuting well-brought up points. That's not how discussions should go. If there's some valid point that The Team HAS to allow this automated addon, please, tell me. Because right now, I feel The Team has a valid stance and their position, albeit a hard one, is pretty brave and tells us a lot about them - they want RoR to be BETTER than that....and it IS.

[mynban]

snip

You clearly did not read my post above the one I told you to check, and just want to win an argument with hyperbole. And here you are saying devs made RoR better with that change.

I just logged for an hour. During that time only 2 SCs popped, and one ended in 500-20.

If 1 hour of entertainment time's value is getting that and you call that *better*, good for you. A dead game with less than 200 population in evening is not what I would call better. Oceania evenings were 600+, weekends were 800+; and this was while we were in beautiful summer time. Now it is colder coming to winter; as I am writing this population is 200. This weekend it was less than 200 on sunday afternoon. One has to be blind to not see how the situation is. People blame New World for draining players, real migration went to GW and ESO following NB ban and everyone knows that.

[ChicagoJoe]

How TF is a UNFAIR advantage if the addon was accesible to EVERYONE??

What if the skilled players that know their rotation and can make fast decisions in-battle and do great simply don't WANT to be forced to use a cheap automating addon that plays for them? Just "because it's available for everyone to cheese" doesn't make it better.

People would rather, you know, actually play the game and not be forced to use NB (have a more colourful and clever name for it) just to keep up to the speed of an automated system.

You're saying you should have a right to play how you want by using NB? Goes the other way, too. We want the right to not HAVE to use it. It just so happens that your want is against the games TOS and fundamentally broke combat by making it automated and boring, and our want isn't deemed such.

Once more, if people blame the population drop because of NB being banned, you can say the same for Destruction Nerfs too...the timing there can be just as valid. Just making an example.

Dude, you already admitted you never even used NB. Why are you still commenting on it? You lose all credibility as a poster when you discuss something you have no experience with. Don't give me you did research stuff. Did you learn that NB was created by Sam Colt?

Some people didn't like NB because it made people more competitive. That's a good thing. I got my wife and teens playing with me until it was removed. So in my family ROR went from 4 playing to 1 playing 1/10 of what I did. A ton of casuals left because of it in addition to people who could jump from alt to alt and stay on for hours. This is a complicated game that despite its awesomeness to me and others has some warts and things that make it easier help attract and maintain pop. It was a better version of the sequencer, but didn't do the most important aspects of the game, positioning, targeting, teamwork, etc... though it could cure the common cold. Some of the GMs publicly and privately were not for its removal, btw.

You also weren't even around for the destro nerfs, most of which any objective person would agree something needed to be done about. What really hurt was destro in the last 6-7 months was that it had some of the best guilds and leaders. Many left. Some specifically for NB, some for destro nerf, some for other reasons. My guild and others switched from order to destro to hold the line. Then my guild left, primarily for lack of change to RVR.

My point here is not to embarrass you, but to ask you to not comment on what you don't know as that perpetuates misinformation. Kudos to you for being passionate about the game and leading warbands. Comment on what you see there, as there is plenty to discuss.

The GMs and other decision makers and influencers read posts and actually do make changes. Its a pretty incredible team. I just want them to think about all levers that may return population. 1. RVR mechanic changes (see wonshot). 2. AAO changes (reward not penalize defense) 3. slight large scale RVR balance changes - if they do that stuff some important people will return. NB return would help too.

[MissHazard]

Did you learn that NB was created by Sam Colt?

lol

[Alfa1986]

I don't like a lot of the devs decisions and lack of certain decisions. But Banning NB is not one of those decisions. Why play a game when you have an addon essentially play your class for you? Any addon IMO that does operations faster than a normal human could, or reduces the amount of mistakes a player could make, especially in a competitive environment. Is an unfair advantage.

How TF is a UNFAIR advantage if the addon was accesible to EVERYONE??

True, I should correct myself and just say it was cheating. Because it essentially was.

The same way buffhead, tether, enemy and discord is an unfair advantage.

And the difference between other addons and NB is the fact that with NB the addon is essentially playing the game for you. Buffhead and other addons aren't, they give you useful information to improve how you play.

No point mentioning that NB's caused a pop drop, that's irrelevant. Only point in mentioning it is if it's going to be changed, and it isn't. My idea to bring pop back? Revert balance back to live or start a comprehensive balance change/update to make more specs viable and nerf the current meta, also probably not going to happen. IMO adding new content like LOTD and the elf city is a short term solution. Cities and ORVR need revamps to improve them as that's what most people spend their time doing. And that's what needs to be focused on. Not content that's going to be consumed and finished. But content that is constantly interacted with and replayed (city SC/PVE dungeons/ORVR campaign), and of course all these are directly affected and also effect the current balance and meta.

And why are there people thinking that reverting balance back to live is a good idea? I do not want to see WP and WH reverted. Why would people rush back if they hear this? And making all the revamps you mention or new cities would require ennormous amount of resources. Probably will take too long and population may (or should I say will) drop further. Reverting NB is quick on the other hand.

At this very moment population online is 192. This is including T1, PvE, capitals. What's left for t4 RvR? 30 vs 30? Now tell me that reverting NB ban is not an option and we need to wait another year or two for all other implementations. What will be numbers then?

Well I said it probably wasn't going to happen. But the point of going back to live balance is because it was a reference point most people could agree on for balance. And NB isn't coming back, accept it and move on. That ship has exploded, sunk to the bottom of the ocean and disintegrated. And yeah, stuff takes effort. The question isn't if it's going to take effort, the question is what is the best current approved avenue of applying that effort for the greatest return in players.

then there is no point worth asking how to get the population up. the answer is obvious - no way.
all balance changes, the addition of new content or a return to the old rvr system that was on live (judging by the messages on the forum, which are apparently now being vigorously discussed among the developers) are meaningless without the return of NB. people who left or began to play at times less or began to play on a much smaller pool of characters due to NB ban are unlikely to return for a long time. as rightly have been said above, if we should come to terms with the ban of NB, then we need to come to terms with this level of the server population, it is normal for this state of the game.
and accordingly, you need no thinking about how to get the population up, but to rebuild the rvr system (zones, forts, cities) for a low server population, it is possible to partially exclude cities, forts, just return to battles in regular zones, whatever it was R vs PVEdoor.

[abezverkhiy]

Well I said it probably wasn't going to happen. But the point of going back to live balance is because it was a reference point most people could agree on for balance. And NB isn't coming back, accept it and move on. That ship has exploded, sunk to the bottom of the ocean and disintegrated. And yeah, stuff takes effort. The question isn't if it's going to take effort, the question is what is the best current approved avenue of applying that effort for the greatest return in players.

I like your reference to ships but in our case I think it would be more appropriate to say the ship was taken to a scrap yard but she was not scrapped yet as we all saw someone using it. See first topic of recently locked NB thread - the ship is still alive and kicking. And if life taught me something it was that death and taxes were innevitable, rest could be changed.

However, if there is a person who has enough power to make NB ban equal to death and taxes then it is him/her to take full responsibility for placing this game on a death row - population drop was so severe since May that now people would be leaving not because of the NB situation but because of the low numbers.

NB, as many outlined, filled gaps in classes architecture and made many specs playable and enjoable. If you take away NB and not offer anything to fill those gaps then you are making those specs/classes unplayable and then this farrago of **** is your burden. And crews can find a new captain less wreckless and stubborn who would offer them another ship. This is what happened to half of the crew already.

[GrishnakBlagtoof]

snip

You clearly did not read my post, and just want to win an argument with hyperbole. And you are saying they made RoR better with that change.

I just logged for an hour. During that time only 2 SCs popped, and one ended in 500-20.

If 1 hour of entertainment time's value is getting that and you call that *better*, good for you. A dead game with less than 200 population in evening is not what I would call better. Oceania evenings were 600+, weekends were 800+; and this was while we were in beautiful summer time. Now it is colder coming to winter; as I am writing this population is 200. This weekend it was less than 200 on sunday afternoon. One has to be blind to not see how the situation is. People blame New World for draining players, real migration went to GW and ESO following NB ban and everyone knows that.

Well, it isn't like you've read any of mine, but yes, I did. I disagreed and asked you the same question twice. A question that isn't even remotely hyperbole. It's a legit real question. I want to know, but, I guess in the end, I have my answer. You want what's good for you, not the game.
Have a great night!

Dude, you already admitted you never even used NB. Why are you still commenting on it? You lose all credibility as a poster when you discuss something you have no experience with. Don't give me you did research stuff. Did you learn that NB was created by Sam Colt?

Some people didn't like NB because it made people more competitive. That's a good thing. I got my wife and teens playing with me until it was removed. So in my family ROR went from 4 playing to 1 playing 1/10 of what I did. A ton of casuals left because of it in addition to people who could jump from alt to alt and stay on for hours. This is a complicated game that despite its awesomeness to me and others has some warts and things that make it easier help attract and maintain pop. It was a better version of the sequencer, but didn't do the most important aspects of the game, positioning, targeting, teamwork, etc... though it could cure the common cold. Some of the GMs publicly and privately were not for its removal, btw.

You also weren't even around for the destro nerfs, most of which any objective person would agree something needed to be done about. What really hurt was destro in the last 6-7 months was that it had some of the best guilds and leaders. Many left. Some specifically for NB, some for destro nerf, some for other reasons. My guild and others switched from order to destro to hold the line. Then my guild left, primarily for lack of change to RVR.

My point here is not to embarrass you, but to ask you to not comment on what you don't know as that perpetuates misinformation. Kudos to you for being passionate about the game and leading warbands. Comment on what you see there, as there is plenty to discuss.

The GMs and other decision makers and influencers read posts and actually do make changes. Its a pretty incredible team. I just want them to think about all levers that may return population. 1. RVR mechanic changes (see wonshot). 2. AAO changes (reward not penalize defense) 3. slight large scale RVR balance changes - if they do that stuff some important people will return. NB return would help too.

I have every right to voice my opinion on what I have seen, know and researched. You don't know me or my experiences or my life in such a way that you can be the person to determine what I can and cannot comment on. "You disagree with me, and instead of making valid points, I'm gunna attack you on a more personal level even though I have no idea who you are or what you have experienced in any way." I can comment on the issue all I want. Just because you disagree with me, that doesn't suddenly mean I'm not allowed to. Gatekeeping....talk about having no credibility....sigh
You have absolutely ZERO right to tell me what I can and cannot comment on. Period.

So I ask again......What if the skilled players that know their rotations and can make fast decisions in-battle and do great simply don't WANT to be forced to use a cheap automating addon that plays for them? Just "because it's available for everyone to cheese" doesn't make it better. A lot of players like to, you know, play the game.

[Buling]

You are new, and never experienced, used or seen NB in action. So I can accept your ignorance on the topic. For people who say NB was a *literal 1 button that plays for you* (your exact words); whoever told you that was the case they are lying with gross exaggeration, dont fall for it. Read my above post.

You dont lose because other side had an addon *that plays for them*. You lose because you were outnumbered, you were outgeared, you were a bad player who doesnt understand how to position, or dance behind enemy, or keep enemy from dancing behind you, you were too stupid to be lured into a spot where you were easy picking. That's why people lose. If you lost to an NB player who put their CC and burst into one key rotation, it means you suck and would have lost to anyone regardless and you are nowhere near close to point competitive play starts.

Want some cheese to go with that whine?

Seriously, NB was a crutch for people who couldn't be bothered to learn to play or adapt themselves. The fact most the people defending it resort to the same "mah buttons" defence means they should be fine without it.

After all, why do you need an addon to be able to show your superior positioning and playstyle?

[mynban]

You are new, and never experienced, used or seen NB in action. So I can accept your ignorance on the topic. For people who say NB was a *literal 1 button that plays for you* (your exact words); whoever told you that was the case they are lying with gross exaggeration, dont fall for it. Read my above post.

You dont lose because other side had an addon *that plays for them*. You lose because you were outnumbered, you were outgeared, you were a bad player who doesnt understand how to position, or dance behind enemy, or keep enemy from dancing behind you, you were too stupid to be lured into a spot where you were easy picking. That's why people lose. If you lost to an NB player who put their CC and burst into one key rotation, it means you suck and would have lost to anyone regardless and you are nowhere near close to point competitive play starts.

Want some cheese to go with that whine?

Seriously, NB was a crutch for people who couldn't be bothered to learn to play or adapt themselves. The fact most the people defending it resort to the same "mah buttons" defence means they should be fine without it.

After all, why do you need an addon to be able to show your superior positioning and playstyle?

I already explained it in detail. Go back my posts in this thread and check. Short answer is: I do NOT need it. But in its absence I wont bother playing an alt with new input layout, nor characters with badly designed mechanics. Input requirement difference between classes so grossly different that it feels like some characters dont even belong in the same game. I stopped playing those chars altogether. I am also not bothering to respec as often, since I cant be bothered to reconfigure keys again and again. Just sticking with same few chars with same few specs. Gets boring real fast. And then there is my real problem; in my evenings population is under 200 nowadays. It was even under 200 on sunday afternoon. This is Oceania timezone. That is 1/4 what the numbers were in our SUMMER! We are in winter now, this is when people stay indoors here and play games. **** winter time, 6pm in the evening and got 2 SCs pop in 1 hour. I know it is exactly one hour because of xp scroll. One of those SCs lasted 45 seconds due to population difference, other ended in a 500-20. So much fun to be had in an hour of entertainment time. Most people I used to play with/against migrated to ESO and GW. THAT is my issue with NB ban.

[Sulorie]

The whole talk about NB automating gameplay sounds pretty much like some "what is an assault rifle?"-discussion.