New Shammy Changes

[Qwack]

Have you tried kiting a WL, SM, SW, BW or even a Engie with the latest experimental changes as a Goblin? Runspeed doesn't do anything when you are perma CC'd or getting stacked up with DoTs that you can't cleanse.

um, getting back to Shammans on this Shamman thread...

Roadkill has a point and one can add ranged stagger from Knight, Champ Challenges, Morale Roots, AOE CCs from other classes and especially ranged stagger from RP. Anyone can kite if no one CCs ya, but the vast amount of CC on Order has made it much more difficult now than on Live because we no longer have Odjira, Quick Escape or Trivial Blows (to recover after the CC). Now to add to this problem our self-heals have a 40% reduction in effectiveness and DPS Shammies have lost their instas. In this new paradigm the Shammy is not near as survivable as it was on Live nor in pre-experimental RoR.

Again... this is not knocking the new changes, this is an attempt to look at the entire picture and all of the consequences of the changes whether foreseen or not. Survivability is more questionable now under .ab ex.

[roadkillrobin]

At least one of them already lights up - I think it's Rain Lord / Yer a Weaklin'. I'll have to include them.

Yer A Weakling used to be an dmg attack that reduced STR. It had 2 sec cast and cast time was reduced by WAAAGH.
Thats why it lights up.

http://warhammeronline.wikia.com/wiki/G ... nd_Careers

(Old Tooltip)
"Your target takes Elemental damage. Your target's Strength is also reduced for 10 second"

http://warhammeronline.wikia.com/wiki/Shaman_Abilities

[Azarael]

Now to add to this problem our self-heals have a 40% reduction in effectiveness

Please stop peddling this because I'm sick of explaining it. I will do so one last time before taking other action if I see it posted again.

If and only if you have heal-boosting mechanic points, the heal value of cast time heals on self is reduced proportionally to the cast time and AP cost. The HPS is the same as the old mechanic on self, so no, this didn't "add anything to the problem". It's the same HPS for time and cost, with shorter casts.

[Qwack]

Now to add to this problem our self-heals have a 40% reduction in effectiveness

Please stop peddling this because I'm sick of explaining it. I will do so one last time before taking other action if I see it posted again.

If and only if you have heal-boosting mechanic points, the heal value of cast time heals on self is reduced proportionally to the cast time and AP cost. The HPS is the same as the old mechanic on self, so no, this didn't "add anything to the problem". It's the same HPS for time and cost, with shorter casts.

Aza I really am not "peddling" it. I really do deeeeeply understand what this is doing in the real world because I am out every day running it. I mentioned this in the context of the overall "Survivability" issue, it wasn't meant as some kind of spitball aimed at you. I am not asking for it to be changed, but it still must be mentioned in terms of CC events and ensuing survivability.

When freecasting, its fine! As long as Order cooperates and leaves the Shammy alone its fine!

But, after playing these new changes every single day as a healer and DPSer here is what I have learned and here is what every group leader must ask themselves... "Do I want a healer in my group that still can not heal/cleanse as well as a DoK, nor has Flash Heal and is now less survivable and requires more attention from the other healers?"... The answer is obvious. While some of these changes are nice, and a lot of hard work and testing went into it all, they still do not fundamentally address the core problems with healing Shammans nor bring the Shamman into a group over a DoK or Zealot. A running healer is going to get CC'd then boxed and that's where all of these changes fall apart.

Aza if you really want to help a healing Shamman and give it half a chance to be in a group at all, give it Isha's Ward like my AM has. That would mitigate a lot of the current survivability issues. Plus give the Shammy the same effect as my AM has with Walk Between Worlds which is the AOE detaunt but it has a 5 second no Setback instead of a lame 5% disrupt. Setbacks are mucking this picture up and a tiny disrupt bump doesn't do jack when 2 tanks and 2 melee have you boxed.

Notice I am not on the AM thread advocating my AM? Because my AM is sooo freaking better in every way (Healing, DPSing, Hybrid) over my Shammy it doesn't need to be advocated. Just toss the Shammy a few crumbs from the AM class and the survivability issued is resolved.

[Akapulto]

Now to add to this problem our self-heals have a 40% reduction in effectiveness

Please stop peddling this because I'm sick of explaining it. I will do so one last time before taking other action if I see it posted again.

If and only if you have heal-boosting mechanic points, the heal value of cast time heals on self is reduced proportionally to the cast time and AP cost. The HPS is the same as the old mechanic on self, so no, this didn't "add anything to the problem". It's the same HPS for time and cost, with shorter casts.

Aza I really am not "peddling" it. I really do deeeeeply understand what this is doing in the real world because I am out every day running it. I mentioned this in the context of the overall "Survivability" issue, it wasn't meant as some kind of spitball aimed at you. I am not asking for it to be changed, but it still must be mentioned in terms of CC events and ensuing survivability.

When freecasting, its fine! As long as Order cooperates and leaves the Shammy alone its fine!

But, after playing these new changes every single day as a healer and DPSer here is what I have learned and here is what every group leader must ask themselves... "Do I want a healer in my group that still can not heal/cleanse as well as a DoK, nor has Flash Heal and is now less survivable and requires more attention from the other healers?"... The answer is obvious. While some of these changes are nice, and a lot of hard work and testing went into it all, they still do not fundamentally address the core problems with healing Shammans nor bring the Shamman into a group over a DoK or Zealot. A running healer is going to get CC'd then boxed and that's where all of these changes fall apart.

Aza if you really want to help a healing Shamman and give it half a chance to be in a group at all, give it Isha's Ward like my AM has. That would mitigate a lot of the current survivability issues. Plus give the Shammy the same effect as my AM has with Walk Between Worlds which is the AOE detaunt but it has a 5 second no Setback instead of a lame 5% disrupt. Setbacks are mucking this picture up and a tiny disrupt bump doesn't do jack when 2 tanks and 2 melee have you boxed.

Notice I am not on the AM thread advocating my AM? Because my AM is sooo freaking better in every way (Healing, DPSing, Hybrid) over my Shammy it doesn't need to be advocated. Just toss the Shammy a few crumbs from the AM class and the survivability issued is resolved.

Im sorry to say, but his patch is no help for healing shamans.
Main Problems still are:
Way to long group heal cast time.
Singe cleanse
Low def
Low hps (group healing)
High AP costs of healing abilities.

[Jarobor]

New mechanics doesn't affect Ey Quit Bleedin HoT - is it working as intended?
Also, skill to clear/switch waaagh (similar to BO/SM) should be introduced, as previous speakers pointed.

As for Sham's - simplest way to make them needed healer in WB/6 man - is to switch cleanses abilities between SHM and DoK - even if SHM get new cleanse (even group one), he will be second (or 3rd) choice for healer in party/wb - because Dok/WP still will be more reliable and better. Ofc, it would be DOK/WP nerf, with huge whining so it wont happen.

[Nabaro]

New change I'll Take That! are great. Now it proc my ap tactic, and can crit for 2k. Yes, heal debuff work on it, but still good.
I've been testing the new mechanics for a while and despite the fact that it is not perfect. It is sure better than what it was. Now AP problem only with AMs, it would be nice if the Drain Magic has been "cursed" or "ailing". If you ignore the new mechanics and only AOE/hots healbot, you will have problems.

And yes:

so it would be nice to have a skill which changes the points positions(Gork in Mork or re), with some CD.

[Kallah]

New mechanics doesn't affect Ey Quit Bleedin HoT - is it working as intended?
Also, skill to clear/switch waaagh (similar to BO/SM) should be introduced, as previous speakers pointed.

As for Sham's - simplest way to make them needed healer in WB/6 man - is to switch cleanses abilities between SHM and DoK - even if SHM get new cleanse (even group one), he will be second (or 3rd) choice for healer in party/wb - because Dok/WP still will be more reliable and better. Ofc, it would be DOK/WP nerf, with huge whining so it wont happen.

Right now shammy, in terms of healing, is as good as doks/WPs. Yes, we have a lack of "utility" compared with the others healers. But our healing numbers have received a huge boost.

[roadkillrobin]

New mechanics doesn't affect Ey Quit Bleedin HoT - is it working as intended?
Also, skill to clear/switch waaagh (similar to BO/SM) should be introduced, as previous speakers pointed.

As for Sham's - simplest way to make them needed healer in WB/6 man - is to switch cleanses abilities between SHM and DoK - even if SHM get new cleanse (even group one), he will be second (or 3rd) choice for healer in party/wb - because Dok/WP still will be more reliable and better. Ofc, it would be DOK/WP nerf, with huge whining so it wont happen.

Right now shammy, in terms of healing, is as good as doks/WPs. Yes, we have a lack of "utility" compared with the others healers. But our healing numbers have received a huge boost.

Not even close...
I have both well geared Shaman and DoK. And i do end up topping healing scores on Destro when i play either one of em. (I'm not trying to brag here just showing that i can play both pretty well) And the DoK outpeforms the Shaman in probobly 90% of the games I play. The remainig 10% is due to the map is favoroble for Shamans (lots of open terrain) or the oposition is pretty weak.
That means that one class is competative and the other one isn't.

[catholicism198]

After toying around with a bit I have to agree with the OP- sort of.
While some of the changes are nice- being able to cast "I'll Take That!" on the run and the buff to the Waaagh! Frenzy tactic- I can't help but mourn the loss of my instant casts...

It takes some adjusting, but once you toy around with it for a bit you'll see that the 'experimental mechanic' is, in a way, closer to what the original developers might have intended. The changes made to it require you to constantly flip between healing and dealing damage or else you'll be locked out from benefiting from Gork's or Mork's Waaagh! for five GCD. Unlike the live mechanic, you only need one charge of Waaagh! in order to receive the maximum benefits- instead of five. So in essence, spamming only heals or damaging abilities will result in you being punished.

I think Rain Lord and Law of Age also should build Force and consume Tranquility for increased effect.

At least one of them already lights up - I think it's Rain Lord / Yer a Weaklin'. I'll have to include them.

Please don't.

You'z Squishy and Yer a Weaklin' scale with points spent in their mastery path and neither one does any damage so there's no need to make them grant a mechanic point or benefit from them.
Yer a Weaklin' originally did damage over time, debuffed strength, and had a two second cast time, which was reduced with Gork's Waaagh! Which is why the ability lights up.
The same is true of Yer Not So Bad (does not light up- originally had a two second cast,) and Gork's Barbs (does light up but does not benefit from Waaagh! as it is already an instant cast).
That is just the result of lazy devs.


Hard to see...but there's the damage over time and the "Gork's Waaagh reduces cast time"
Guy had five waaagh! hence the instant cast.