Proc meta

[footpatrol2]

@jaycub

I disagree with almost everything you posted above. I understand your perspective though and why you have come to those conclusions.

Your asking for balance for mixed group play while CRUSHING the racial group synergy that is already in place and what makes them unique. Your picking up the torch where EU/Bioware left off.

[Dabbart]

@Dabbart

Another thing as well, these procs are unique buffs provided by classes. Shaman/Z core buffs are all things that are covered by chosen auras or somewhat covered by BO (ini). More problems caused by buff stacking and certain classes getting shafted in terms of what they bring to a group because another class that is already quite strong does it already if not better.

For instance resistance buff, you can get it from shaman, Zealot, chosen, and BO. Chosen's is by far the best... and chosen is an extremely solid tank that you would want in virtually every 6 man. This means shaman/Zealot needs to compete against DoK without their group buff even being a factor and they just can't. Rituals are nice but not needed, other ways to pump AP (and DoK has it :^))

One of the things imo driving classes into or out of the meta is specifically their kit's not being as good as some other class due to buffs/debuffs not stacking etc...

Take for instance BG on destro... something I am way too familiar with. If you want to get the most out of a BG in you standard 2-2-2 melee train group you need to not run a mara (lol), you lose a morale pump from either BO/Chosen, you lose either 100% uptime AoE snare, or reliable KD... you start just ripping apart a good group to try and get the most out of a subpar class.


If every class had buffs on the level of covenants/prayers/flames or ruin/frozen touch etc... it would help a lot. Specifically their unique nature which doesn't conflict with other classes. For instance if you could only have one damaging proc active BW/Sorc would be out because you would always be running DoK/WP.

Yes, sham/z are covered by aura's, but having it allows the chosen/knight to run other Aura's. And the spike+absorp of the Z has to be worth something... And I feel sure that shaman's do something other than Kite... I think my opinion is that having varied classes allows the group more flexibility in how it fights based upon enemy. But I get your point. My WP sometimes makes my Knight feel squishy...

Thanks for the lengthy replies though. My dessie knowledge isn't that good. But I do love my Z:P

[Gachimuchi]

Admittedly, My only character on destro is a Z and I never played them on Live, so I don't claim to be the best at discussing destro classes. But seriously? Your Meta has 3 DoKs? Don't mean to derail thread on this point, but seriously, there is no "incentive" to carry sham/Z at all? 3 DoKs seem's excessive.

Shaman is bad. In my entire time on this game I have never encountered a premade running a shaman that didn't fold up like lawnchairs. If Knight didn't have triple shatter it wouldn't be so bad and we might see pocket strats with morale pump from Ere We Go but even then it will still probably leave something to be desired.

Considering Aza has been making some balance tweaks I don't know why shaman hasn't been buffed(or knight nerfed). I shouldn't have to go back to the first few weeks of me being on this server and dig up my thread about tripleshatter making shamans completley dumpster tier.

[dur3al]

Considering Aza has been making some balance tweaks I don't know why shaman hasn't been buffed(or knight nerfed).

Please... I think its quite clear knights need a tone down.

@Thread, I'd rather have a game more balanced towards in skills rather then procs (like live with WP/DF procs doing most of the job).

[Azarael]

Considering Aza has been making some balance tweaks I don't know why shaman hasn't been buffed(or knight nerfed). I shouldn't have to go back to the first few weeks of me being on this server and dig up my thread about tripleshatter making shamans completley dumpster tier.

Priorities and lack of power. I would rather leave balance modifications until the point where enough of the client's ability system is understood for us to make changes to all relevant parts. We're not there yet, I don't know if we will be any time soon.

[Annaise16]

As constant damage skills, BS and ST are highly vulnerable to being weakened by power inflation. This might have something to do with it.

BS and ST were always good. The increase in crit rates maintained their effectiveness as renown ranks increased.

The main reason why SMs were rarely wanted in 6's was because double-slayer was the standard dps and you needed an IB's armor debuff to improve the slayers' effectiveness, while a kotbs was included by default.

[Annaise16]

From having played quite extensively with procbuilds( i am talking now about bw/sorc procs):

I tried to find out how it worked on live , and it was very difficult finding an appropriate video of a mdps using the proc with proper ui visibility of its applications. The closest i found was this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdJgheowSiE ( go to 2:19-2:20 and slow it down) - from this the icd(if it existed which i doubt) was lower then 1s- the sorc most likely didn't run the proc tactic in that video as it was hard to ever see it proc again in a consistent fashion. I would love it if someone has proper videos with visibility of how it worked.

Also i tried to find any patch notes referencing icd , but appart from damage increase/decrease and other mechanics no mentioning of ICD (still doesn't mean there was none)

It has balance implications tho (specifically related to the gear-state of the game and the non-scaling nature of procs) , and is quite powerful atm. , in a similar fashion that bs/st are . It does not make for very interactive gameplay but is different to normal meta and not undefeatable , depending on what kind of setup you are running.


Edit : As a matter of fact, i have just noticed that how in that video that i linked it proced off of a dot 2:52-2:53 (Yer all bleeding now) - which makes me even more curious how it actually worked...

There was no apparent internal cooldown on the Blurring Shock proc. This was most clearly visible when a whole warband attacked Tcharzannek at the end of stage 3 of a city instances because you would see the proc damage scrolling off the top of the screen due to the large rate of crits from the entire warband.

[Gachimuchi]

Priorities and lack of power. I would rather leave balance modifications until the point where enough of the client's ability system is understood for us to make changes to all relevant parts. We're not there yet, I don't know if we will be any time soon.

I propose having player senators so we can vote Azarael emergency powers as supreme chancellor.

Spoiler:

Click here to watch on YouTube

[dur3al]

Btw, will this continue without the internal cool-down? It is intended or not? =o
I'd just like to have the game more reliable in skills and usage of cc instead of downright zerging and letting the procs do all the job - similar to how rr90-rr100 worked when implemented - brainless game-play back then.

[Azarael]

At the moment, we don't have a source for the ICD on any given proc. As far as I know, Londo hasn't yet uncovered that information, though I may be wrong.

If you can find a reliable source, or person, for the ICD of various procs, I will be more than happy to fix them across the board.