Changelog 18/11/16

[Bozzax]

I think the strength to willpower should be lowered to something like 40% base + 1-6 x 10% per stack (40-100%). You beefed aoe hots/hots to much as all have 3stacks (150%) all the time.

+ Sigmar's Shield will deal 50% less damage and become undefendable.
+ Rend Soul and Divine Assault will deal 50% less damage, but will heal for 75% more, will heal for the mitigated value as well, and become undefendable.

Also decreased damage on these 2 is needed while increasing the heal gain to cover for lost heals (from damage).

Undef (reliable) + good damage (> good healing) is the real problem.

The downside with .ab ex "2 man patch" however is it made DOKs a liability (kite, outnumberd) in ORVR 6 man roam, which I personally don't like.

[kryss]

I really hope you will consider outgoing heal debuff to balance all this, it will give wh/we a purpose and make this op tapheals fest a bit more bearable

[peterthepan3]

I like volgo's suggestion. Also think making outgoing heal debuffs affect melee healing would add some viability to certain classes/specs.

I can understand sweet's concerns, but believe - in the interests of balance - that no one class should have the potential to be able to have dps levels of dmg whilst also being able to heal very well in the same spec Grace is a healing tree and ought to revolve around that.

[Bozzax]

No it would destroy melee heals completely. Melee heals already are much more vulnerable to cc then back line heals. Even snare/kite affect melee healing not just KD, KB, Stun.

Being in melee range also means you are more likely to be inc & out heal debuffed.

[zumos2]

No it would destroy melee heals completely. Melee heals already are much more vulnerable to cc then back line heals. Even snare/kite affect melee healing not just KD, KB, Stun.

Being in melee range also means you are more likely to be inc & out heal debuffed.

While that is all true there has to be some kind of counter to the healing from Grace/Sacrifice. If you say the only counter is to kite you basically only allow 2 setups to run. 1) Those who exploit Grace/Sacrifice as much as possible and 2) Pure kite comps.

[roadkillrobin]

So if CoC and PoR is designed to be a pure dps stance maybe try this:

Melee heals while in Covenant of Celerity/Prayer of Righteoughness stance are receptible for both incomming and outgoin heal debuffs, While Melee heals in Covenant of Vitallity/Prayer of Devotion are not.

[zumos2]

Undef (reliable) + good damage (> good healing) is the real problem.

The downside with .ab ex "2 man patch" however is it made DOKs a liability (kite, outnumberd) in ORVR 6 man roam, which I personally don't like.

Well you could always swap to backline healing stance, which is also why I dont like the increased cooldown. Swapping back and forth at the right time should imo part of the skill.

[zumos2]

So if CoC and PoR is designed to be a pure dps stance maybe try this:

Melee heals while in Covenant of Celerity/Prayer of Righteoughness stance are receptible for both incomming and outgoin heal debuffs, While Melee heals in Covenant of Vitallity/Prayer of Devotion are not.

The healing from CoC and PoR is not the problem atm, In fact it is quite weak. Main problem is lack of counterplay against Grace/Sacrifice.

[Bozzax]

No it would destroy melee heals completely. Melee heals already are much more vulnerable to cc then back line heals. Even snare/kite affect melee healing not just KD, KB, Stun.

Being in melee range also means you are more likely to be inc & out heal debuffed.

While that is all true there has to be some kind of counter to the healing from Grace/Sacrifice. If you say the only counter is to kite you basically only allow 2 setups to run. 1) Those who exploit Grace/Sacrifice as much as possible and 2) Pure kite comps.

Nope I don't I say "it would destroy melee heals completely" (by making them unreliable).

The undef (reliable) hard hitting melee heals is the problem. They do good damage and great reliable healing even on tanks.

Damage covs/prayers melee heals don't have this as they have to much more picky on targets to "lifetap".

[roadkillrobin]

So if CoC and PoR is designed to be a pure dps stance maybe try this:

Melee heals while in Covenant of Celerity/Prayer of Righteoughness stance are receptible for both incomming and outgoin heal debuffs, While Melee heals in Covenant of Vitallity/Prayer of Devotion are not.

The healing from CoC and PoR is not the problem atm, In fact it is quite weak. Main problem is lack of counterplay against Grace/Sacrifice.

I personally don't think it needs more counterplays, The melee healing playstyle is the counterplay to it itself. If you allow outgoin healdebuffs wich they are much more recipble for being on the frontline then the heal realibillity is just gone and you might aswell just go back to backline healing wich have far less counterplays in general.