Balancing Order Tanks

[Panzerkasper]

The changes made to engi/Mage ARE good and both classes are much more useful now

Chosen has not been nerfed in any meaningful way and is still easily the best tank on destro due to ez use of auras and destined for victory

kotbs and Chosen are low effort very high reward due to auras that are MANDATORY to run in every level of play


That is the definition of op and broken, no one class, not archtype, class should be mandatory


You completely missed what people where saying about Bg apparently becuase the issue is that Mara creates ability redundancy that means that they have superior versions of a large part of BGs kit and what remaining unique things that Bg has isn't sufficent to ever consider taking it over BO and all the good things it brings to the table


Anyone here who can't see that
1. Auras are way too strong
2.that kotbs/chosen brought back in line with other tanks so that all are equally viable

Really doesn't know much about game balance

The use of auras was made SO easy by the RoR team themself! They made Chosen/Kotbs the brainless tanks they are right now, do not forget that. I really liked the old way more, because even with addons like twister you had to keep an eye on it and you could more fluently involve other auras into your rotation and could adjust to the situation way better then you can do now.

The two major nerfs for chosen was Quake beeing brought down to a aoe damage tool and nothing more and the changes made to PftG.

Destined for Victory is one of the if not THE most overrated tactic there is. Even with a morale 4 up every minute there is still a 50sec downtime window and seriously: If you need morale 4 every minute to keep your team alive you are really in a bad spot.

There is nothing OP or Broken about the Chosen whatsoever, the knight was and maybe still is, because he still has the better setup. Running two knights in a group was and is still super strong, due to the kombination of their skills. Running two chosen in a group was always redundant,

[Cimba]

I don't like the fundamental concept of auras as something that can't be countered only their effects mitigated. I think this bad design and should be reworked. I believe there were already mulitple proposal on what to do with them.

Some comments though. With the current gear level you cant introduce a flat 160 stat steal. This would completely break the balance due to the nonlinear scaling of your chance of being critically hit at low initiative values. To put into perspective some classes only have 123 base initiative at 40.
So you would need a different value for initiative or exclude it entirely form nature's blade procs.

I disagree with your conclusion that heaven's blade (SM resis debuff) is not considered. We actually use it most of the time. However it's a setup related choice. For a melee train grp you probably prefer nature's blade.

[warislove]

if they were that much garbage there wouldnt be ppl that played them like a pro...

how do you explain that?

they had a good grp that knew their sheet...and only ppl that would be salty or call them cheaters and stuff were pugs

[GodlessCrom]

The changes made to engi/Mage ARE good and both classes are much more useful now

Chosen has not been nerfed in any meaningful way and is still easily the best tank on destro due to ez use of auras and destined for victory

kotbs and Chosen are low effort very high reward due to auras that are MANDATORY to run in every level of play


That is the definition of op and broken, no one class, not archtype, class should be mandatory


You completely missed what people where saying about Bg apparently becuase the issue is that Mara creates ability redundancy that means that they have superior versions of a large part of BGs kit and what remaining unique things that Bg has isn't sufficent to ever consider taking it over BO and all the good things it brings to the table


Anyone here who can't see that
1. Auras are way too strong
2.that kotbs/chosen brought back in line with other tanks so that all are equally viable

Really doesn't know much about game balance

The use of auras was made SO easy by the RoR team themself! They made Chosen/Kotbs the brainless tanks they are right now, do not forget that. I really liked the old way more, because even with addons like twister you had to keep an eye on it and you could more fluently involve other auras into your rotation and could adjust to the situation way better then you can do now.

The two major nerfs for chosen was Quake beeing brought down to a aoe damage tool and nothing more and the changes made to PftG.

Destined for Victory is one of the if not THE most overrated tactic there is. Even with a morale 4 up every minute there is still a 50sec downtime window and seriously: If you need morale 4 every minute to keep your team alive you are really in a bad spot.

There is nothing OP or Broken about the Chosen whatsoever, the knight was and maybe still is, because he still has the better setup. Running two knights in a group was and is still super strong, due to the kombination of their skills. Running two chosen in a group was always redundant,

Having a morale 4 up every minute reliably is HUGE, and I don't know how you can argue otherwise. In both small-scale and warband-level play, the morale pump from Chosen and Black Orc is a major advantage. If they cycle it properly, that's 20 seconds where you essentially cannot kill anyone affected by the morale. Seriously, Chosen and Knights are the most common tanks for a reason. The aoe stagger nerf was necessary: a 10 second stagger, really? Who ever thought that idiocy was balanced?

And auras are always an easy mechanic. No way to remove them, other than punting away the tank I guess, and they provide the same stat bonus in an AoE for no effort (even without the RoR changes, don't pretend like spamming your Twister macro was much different. I played a Chosen on live, I remember) that Ironbreakers/Black Guards have to spend a GCD applying through an attack that can be blocked/parried, or just kited away from, and it's a single-target buff in the end anyways.*

Disclaimer: I play an Ironbreaker and they're awesome, I don't think they need to be buffed. But Chosen/Knight is without a doubt easier to play, and their buffs cover a lot of the same ground for way less effort.

[Toldavf]

Iron breaker back on live was considered to be the best deigned and balanced tank and it probably is on ror as well.

[TenTonHammer]

The changes made to engi/Mage ARE good and both classes are much more useful now

Chosen has not been nerfed in any meaningful way and is still easily the best tank on destro due to ez use of auras and destined for victory

kotbs and Chosen are low effort very high reward due to auras that are MANDATORY to run in every level of play


That is the definition of op and broken, no one class, not archtype, class should be mandatory


You completely missed what people where saying about Bg apparently becuase the issue is that Mara creates ability redundancy that means that they have superior versions of a large part of BGs kit and what remaining unique things that Bg has isn't sufficent to ever consider taking it over BO and all the good things it brings to the table


Anyone here who can't see that
1. Auras are way too strong
2.that kotbs/chosen brought back in line with other tanks so that all are equally viable

Really doesn't know much about game balance

The use of auras was made SO easy by the RoR team themself! They made Chosen/Kotbs the brainless tanks they are right now, do not forget that. I really liked the old way more, because even with addons like twister you had to keep an eye on it and you could more fluently involve other auras into your rotation and could adjust to the situation way better then you can do now.

The two major nerfs for chosen was Quake beeing brought down to a aoe damage tool and nothing more and the changes made to PftG.

Destined for Victory is one of the if not THE most overrated tactic there is. Even with a morale 4 up every minute there is still a 50sec downtime window and seriously: If you need morale 4 every minute to keep your team alive you are really in a bad spot.

There is nothing OP or Broken about the Chosen whatsoever, the knight was and maybe still is, because he still has the better setup. Running two knights in a group was and is still super strong, due to the kombination of their skills. Running two chosen in a group was always redundant,

You can't be serious


It was because of the shitty addon that the auras were changed

Please don't bs that twisting auras took a lot of skill and what is this about situational auras, pretty much every other aura is garbage bar hd and lash back is trash compared to the big 3 and even then you can just run str tough resists and be golden

The down time is negligible as you can alternate between the CDs since Bo's also have a morale pump, espically potent in orvr situations

The fact of the matter is that chosen can reach m4 before any other tank in the game and puts any group running them at a clear advantage


It is the single most powerful tactic in the game


lol quake for aoe? That is the single worst ability to use for aoe and bombing on chosen, what a waste of a cc ability
Rending blade and blast wave are better aoe options espically the former with the undefendable trait, the crit tactic and it's cropping strikes utility


Once again, it dosnt matter if you think chosen is not op, no class should be MANDATORY
It needs to be brought inline it's too easy to bee effective by just running auras, and afk following your team

[Panzerkasper]

Having a morale 4 up every minute reliably is HUGE, and I don't know how you can argue otherwise. In both small-scale and warband-level play, the morale pump from Chosen and Black Orc is a major advantage. If they cycle it properly, that's 20 seconds where you essentially cannot kill anyone affected by the morale. Seriously, Chosen and Knights are the most common tanks for a reason. The aoe stagger nerf was necessary: a 10 second stagger, really? Who ever thought that idiocy was balanced?

And auras are always an easy mechanic. No way to remove them, other than punting away the tank I guess, and they provide the same stat bonus in an AoE for no effort (even without the RoR changes, don't pretend like spamming your Twister macro was much different. I played a Chosen on live, I remember) that Ironbreakers/Black Guards have to spend a GCD applying through an attack that can be blocked/parried, or just kited away from, and it's a single-target buff in the end anyways.*

Disclaimer: I play an Ironbreaker and they're awesome, I don't think they need to be buffed. But Chosen/Knight is without a doubt easier to play, and their buffs cover a lot of the same ground for way less effort.

No it is not. Even with 2 morales there is still 40 sec downtime. More then enough time to get burstet because no DDs rotation is bases on 40sec cooldown. Like i said if you need it, good luck in a real fight.....

The stagger was 9 sec and yes it was powerful, but only in 6 vs 6 because in every situation that goes further you had one idiot every time who run into a staggered group with aoe.
Then it got nerfed and the nerfed was done the same way as magus/engi buff in range AND duration/damage. No it was not enough to just nerf the range or the duration, no it needed to be both and we all know how it ended.

Playing with twister was a least some more challenging then it is now, because you still had to remember to press that button once in a while if you were not on of those ravage spamming morons. It was not much, but it was something.

[Panzerkasper]

You can't be serious


It was because of the shitty addon that the auras were changed

Please don't bs that twisting auras took a lot of skill and what is this about situational auras, pretty much every other aura is garbage bar hd and lash back is trash compared to the big 3 and even then you can just run str tough resists and be golden

The down time is negligible as you can alternate between the CDs since Bo's also have a morale pump, espically potent in orvr situations

The fact of the matter is that chosen can reach m4 before any other tank in the game and puts any group running them at a clear advantage


It is the single most powerful tactic in the game


lol quake for aoe? That is the single worst ability to use for aoe and bombing on chosen, what a waste of a cc ability
Rending blade and blast wave are better aoe options espically the former with the undefendable trait, the crit tactic and it's cropping strikes utility


Once again, it dosnt matter if you think chosen is not op, no class should be MANDATORY
It needs to be brought inline it's too easy to bee effective by just running auras, and afk following your team

Oh please do me a favour and just stop posting if you have no idea what you are talking about.

[Natherul]

alright, calm down people before you post something that you will regret. Chosens and KotBS are OP currently and they will be addressed in the future.

[Toldavf]

I would say blorc reached m4 fastest. Not that it really matters for the sake of this increasingly off topic debate.