Mara trees and the everything in 1 spec problem

[Arteker616]

Since this isn't the balance forums ill shitpost.

Melee is terrible right now and the last thing that needs to be done is a nerf to mara, all the other MDPS aside from WL need to be brought on par. And even then without the anti kite/rdps tools like pull and M1 root it wouldn't be enough.

Personally I refuse to play any MDPS right now, it's beyond frustrating and only viable when you have a hardcore 6 man on that is going to have to tryhard even against pug groups with decent RDPS players mixed in. Having to constantly play safe and finally close in on a RDPS only to have them lol m2/rd or cd/self punt away etc... sure is fun.

You don't even deal more damage or are significantly more tanky on MDPS to make up for it. The only reason MDPS where better on live is OP armor set procs and defensive stat dumping post conq because of caps. RDPS can burst better here with M2 scaling vs flat damage/avoidance morales MDPS have.

im 100% behind you.

its getting realy frustrating always same players trying to forum warrior classes for nerfs .

Maybe im a old fart but i remember was a time in mmos develoeprs tried to not NERF overperforming classes and instead try to fixt the issue buffing and doing tweaks in the so called inferior classes

And i cannot but remember the everquest player wich shared the op name Spending 2 years along furor bitching and trying to nerf a class they dislike because in their opinion it was op and affected other class main role .

almost 2 years trying to get mara nerfed , gotta give the man a thumps up for his persistence,history repeat herself quite often

[Haojin]

Since this isn't the balance forums ill shitpost.

Melee is terrible right now and the last thing that needs to be done is a nerf to mara, all the other MDPS aside from WL need to be brought on par. And even then without the anti kite/rdps tools like pull and M1 root it wouldn't be enough.

Personally I refuse to play any MDPS right now, it's beyond frustrating and only viable when you have a hardcore 6 man on that is going to have to tryhard even against pug groups with decent RDPS players mixed in. Having to constantly play safe and finally close in on a RDPS only to have them lol m2/rd or cd/self punt away etc... sure is fun.

You don't even deal more damage or are significantly more tanky on MDPS to make up for it. The only reason MDPS where better on live is OP armor set procs and defensive stat dumping post conq because of caps. RDPS can burst better here with M2 scaling vs flat damage/avoidance morales MDPS have.

look what i discover today. that was the main reason imho, rdps is king atm. it's a nightmare if HTL was broken from beginning.


Click here to watch on YouTube

What are you trying to show, that hold the line stacks 3 times, because that is literally what the tooltip says the ability is supposed to do.

https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/10145

[Bozzax]

Maybe when we have Client control I will make a proposal for something like this...

Spoiler:

This would absolutely destroy the class

There are 3 tweaks that would makes sense to test though

1. Restore TBs 5s CD and lower the wounds debuff to 80-120 (Slayer Devastate as well)
2. Reduce CC to 990 (Obviously WL Force Opportunity as well)
3. Reduce the effectiveness of armor potions 50-66% (So a green one 330-220)

These debuffs are 25-60% stronger then similar abilities on other classes and even outperform same debuff morales.



Benefits
- Breaks the 100% mandatory WL/Mara setup
- Makes Maras a tad less shiny and WL burst a tad less hurting
- Mends multiple abilities that currently has no value as they are completely masked by armor potions
- Makes IB/BG armor debuffs more shiny

[Scrilian]

Am I the only one who fails to see the point of nerfing armor debuffs when armor is the most overperforming defensive stat? On melee, who dont bring much to the table aside of slightly higher damage, while being mediocre at best at everything else.

And with more gear released, armor values go even higher, while CC/FO don't even scale that much, even with like 40% WS.
Armor talismans are selling like hot pockets, heck, I'd even disable them since there aren't enough of corrosion procs available.

Spoiler:

because there's a defensive stat that actually needs bringing into line, and that stat sure ain't Toughness (hint: it's armor)

[Bozzax]

I didn't suggest an armor debuff nerf

I suggested an armor potion nerf by 66% (440 less on a green) and a nerf to Mara/WL armor debuffs 610 armor (-38%)

Why?
1. Make WL/Maras less mandatory in all group setups and other comps (non mara/wl) more attractive
2. Mend countless abilities self armor buffs that are completely masked by current armor potions
3. Make Maras/wl less bursty

[Scrilian]

Wasn't aimed at you personally.
Seen a lot of non-WL/Mara groups roaming around, if melee then mostly WH+SM or WE+BG based, and their burst if fine and in line with RDPS outside of, perhaps, Magus.
Would love to see more of that burst come out of Slayer/Choppa, maybe at the cost of sustained dps, but they got too many issues, like being paper thin or having no tools to deal with ranged, etc.

[Penril]

Maybe when we have Client control I will make a proposal for something like this...

Spoiler:

This would absolutely destroy the class

Not at all. Not nerfing the value of any skill, just the position on the trees so we no longer have a "1 spec that has it all".

You could:

a) Go for CC/DC/DS/MA/GI/Guillotine, but no TB. You are only lacking the wounds debuff, or
b) Go with the spec I linked, but no MA/GI/Gui. You are a debuff bot basically (Wounds, heal & armor debuffs, low damage), or
c) Go for DC/MA/TB/GI/Gui, but no CC or DS. You are basically only missing the armor debuff

In other words, this would prevent Mara from having all 3 main debuffs (armor, wounds & heal) AND dealing good damage at the same time. If they want to do damage, they need to drop one of those 3 debuffs.

But hey, keep saying "this would destroy the class!!!111 " if you want to. I'm sure something like this will happen once we have client control. It's either this or nerfing some of their debuff values (swapping the armor debuff values with BG, nerfing Deadly Clutch, etc).

All classes should rely on others in order to perform to their max potential. WLs need someone with a heal debuff, Choppas need someone with an Armor debuff, etc. Maras? They have it all.

[Arteker616]

Maybe when we have Client control I will make a proposal for something like this...

Spoiler:

This would absolutely destroy the class

Not at all. Not nerfing the value of any skill, just the position on the trees so we no longer have a "1 spec that has it all".

You could:

a) Go for CC/DC/DS/MA/GI/Guillotine, but no TB. You are only lacking the wounds debuff, or
b) Go with the spec I linked, but no MA/GI/Gui. You are a debuff bot basically (Wounds, heal & armor debuffs, low damage), or
c) Go for DC/MA/TB/GI/Gui, but no CC or DS. You are basically only missing the armor debuff

In other words, this would prevent Mara from having all 3 main debuffs (armor, wounds & heal) AND dealing good damage at the same time. If they want to do damage, they need to drop one of those 3 debuffs.

But hey, keep saying "this would destroy the class!!!111 " if you want to. I'm sure something like this will happen once we have client control. It's either this or nerfing some of their debuff values (swapping the armor debuff values with BG, nerfing Deadly Clutch, etc).

All classes should rely on others in order to perform to their max potential. WLs need someone with a heal debuff, Choppas need someone with an Armor debuff, etc. Maras? They have it all.

the same could been said of sw , having all the good stuff in skirmisher , and so on.

mara rely in other class to be at his full potential namely tanks and healers and a assist dps , wich often fall back to choppa. the problem is choppa is mega gimped by broken mechanic , armour sets in ror and a total critic nerf on gear wich realy damaged the class because unlike mara he doesnt have a good solid way to get it.

in a 6 man u dont even rely so much in Cuttin claw because if u realy need to drop someone ur tanks gonna drop x2 demolishing strikes and more than probably bg or bo armour debuff while mara can still run in brutality to do bigger damage than he will do with savagery.

[Bozzax]

No mentally sane mara skips CC (ever)

Relocating them both @13pts in diff trees simply mean smart Maras looses TB.
(tbh gaining easy access to morale & ap drains may actually turn out to be a buff)

[Scrilian]

This really begs the question if Peril has a R40 Marauder