DoK/WP with book/chalice...

[Bacta]

DoK's and WP's are fine, I don't remember this much complaining on live...The difference between these 2 healers compared to the rest is that they are meant to be front line healers that stay close to the tanks and MDPS. While the other healers stick back to the RDPS and are able to heal and kite from danger.

[Penril]

DoK's and WP's are fine, I don't remember this much complaining on live...The difference between these 2 healers compared to the rest is that they are meant to be front line healers that stay close to the tanks and MDPS. While the other healers stick back to the RDPS and are able to heal and kite from danger.

But they don't, which is the reason why this thread exists in the first place (or at least, 20+ pages of it).

Put on a book/chalice and you can spam heals from the backline. If they are meant to be at the front line (like you said yourself), shouldn't something be changed to make it so?

[Morf]

DoK's and WP's are fine, I don't remember this much complaining on live...The difference between these 2 healers compared to the rest is that they are meant to be front line healers that stay close to the tanks and MDPS. While the other healers stick back to the RDPS and are able to heal and kite from danger.

As penril said, they can do better then the 4 other healers while standing at the back, that for me is the problem, i dont want to see them nerf so every dok/wp healer is pissed i wana see them fulfil the role they were meant to be, frontline healers not backline healers with better resource management then the other 4 healers.

Im not sure complaining is the right word to use although i could see why, the fact that any imput the community had on live feel on deaf ears anyway meant ppl were more inclined to just get on with it, here devs are open with the community and seem to have a better insight into the game then any of the old devs(atleast since i started playing the game) so with the players input we will hopefully see improvements.
Not every suggestion for balance/nerf/buff to any class is a good idea but with everyone giving suggestions i believe the game will be in a better state and in the case of wp/dok im sure this will be the case.

[Flipaire]

Everything is fine about guard, WP or Dok. There is always a solution, guards can be bumped, sh hd agains't wp (2wp comp @lol) and it's done, kotbs, wl or ib output hd for dok.

A lot of people are complaining only because it'll be easier to roll face after their suggested bad chances.

Game was running well on live, just don't ruin the game trying to balance following these kind of people. Focus on stability, aggro (for pve implement later) and bags, and contents.

I find it funny about medium armor but backline idea... Yeah if they're remodeled to be melee, give them a heavy armor no ? Haha

[ThePollie]

Game was running well on live, just don't ruin the game trying to balance following these kind of people. Focus on stability, aggro (for pve implement later) and bags, and contents.

Hahahaha.

Oh, yes. Let's cite Live as an example of balance.

[Penril]

Everything is fine about guard, WP or Dok. There is always a solution, guards can be bumped, sh hd agains't wp (2wp comp @lol) and it's done, kotbs, wl or ib output hd for dok.

A lot of people are complaining only because it'll be easier to roll face after their suggested bad chances.

Game was running well on live, just don't ruin the game trying to balance following these kind of people. Focus on stability, aggro (for pve implement later) and bags, and contents.

I find it funny about medium armor but backline idea... Yeah if they're remodeled to be melee, give them a heavy armor no ? Haha

With that logic, Slayer's and Choppas should also have Heavy armor.

Think before you post. Tyvm.

[Morf]

Everything is fine about guard, WP or Dok. There is always a solution, guards can be bumped, sh hd agains't wp (2wp comp @lol) and it's done, kotbs, wl or ib output hd for dok.

A lot of people are complaining only because it'll be easier to roll face after their suggested bad chances.

Game was running well on live, just don't ruin the game trying to balance following these kind of people. Focus on stability, aggro (for pve implement later) and bags, and contents.

I find it funny about medium armor but backline idea... Yeah if they're remodeled to be melee, give them a heavy armor no ? Haha

The debate isnt about being able to bring a sh,kotbs,wl,ib whatever class may have a skill that cannot be cleansed its about the role of a high armor class with great resource management being better at backline healing then the other 4 healers when they are suppose to be frontline healers.
They are not fine compared to the other 4 healers, which is why basically every serious group ran with double wp or double dok, ofc there were exceptions when u had someone who was amazing at playing 1 of the other 4 classes but 9 times out of 10 double wp/double dok was superior, that is the problem and without nerfing them to much so every dok/wp healer(which is half the healers ingame) is pissed slight changes to the 2 classes is needed.

[Gobtar]

There seems to be a ton of "rationalization" and drinking of kool-aid when it comes to the "fine-ness" of healers.

If WP/Dok are fine and Cloth healer are fine then we wouldn't have the disparity that we have. If cloth healers are trickier then they should have vastly better rewards for playing them well...not 150% for mediocrity. There is ample proof behind the fact that WP/Dok is the superior choice in every "relevant" arena of RoR.

Only one of the statements can be true:
-WP/Doks are where healers should be in power. Other classes need to be brought inline strength wise.

-Cloth healers are where healers should be power wise. Wp/Dok need to be adjusted.

We need to determine which of these statements is true before we can continue. I personally believe that it's former.

[Nekkma]

A lot of people are complaining only because it'll be easier to roll face after their suggested bad chances.

History suggests that it is rather the other way around. Massive rerolls to those two classes (and the other "alpha" classes) to profit on the easymode. That is the reason it was "balance" on live. People rerolled the good classes and abandoned the bad/not as good.

[dontcomplainx]

Sorry but if you say the amount of armor of wp and dok is a problem so they should be nerf, but some one already made a post proving that RP and Shamam can be more tanky then the WP/DoK.

You simply don't understand how damage and mitigation work in the game. A toon isn't killed by the amounts of damage it mitigates. It is killed by the amount it receives. So those are the values that you have to compare.

Lol.

WP: Devastator 1560, Prayer 560, 5x150 750, 3x 134 402 -> 3272 = 92,95%
RP: Devastator 795, Prayer 560, 5x150 750, 3x 134 402 -> 2507 = 71,22%

Difference: 765, RP racial 528, new difference 237 = 6,73% (keep in mind that rp can provide a higher armor buff than the prayer +10% armorpen reduction) If you give me the numbers I am sure you get a 15-20% better armor for rp than for wp, with a greater healoutput thanks to healbless.

RP is at 3,27% more mitigation than wp, not even counting the higher armor buff of regenerative shielding compared to prayer.

Higher mitigation = longer life

Just end this right here, say " sorry I was wrong " and refrain from not backing up your claims with calculated numbers.
Then we are fine.

and what do you say about Odjira+Run Away? back on live server i dont remember to see a Wp kiting 8-10ppl or maybe a WARBAND,i guess that should be nerf aswell right? btw sigmarpriest post everything about the other AP healers, now add lack of any kind of CC and you got your an anwser why WP/DoK has a medim armor.

Hello,

something from me i want to throw in.

Ap healing vs Fury healing
Some players say often that it is OP that the wp/dok can heal with his career ressources. Here are some things why AP healing is not that bad

- AP healers have a base ap reg.
- AP healers have the option to use a lot of items that raise their AP reg while the dok / wp has only his book/chalice. Later he got some more but only a hand full. (The souv proc is another topic and need to be adressed)
- AP pool incraise when you reach some rr levels.
- Renown ability efficiency.
- AP healers can use AP pots
- AP healers can raise their ap pool with renown points
- Both classes have abilitys that helps them to reg ressources. But only ap healers profit fully from every grp member that also give you a bonus to your ap regeneration.
- Cost-value ratio. A level 30 WP grp heal heals plain 290 (with 50% healdebuff 145) with 1 second casttime and it cost 60 fury. A RP Grp heal with level 30 plain 533 (with 50% healdebuff 266,5). So WP / Dok need to invest more ressources then the ap healers. The cost-value ration from dok/wp is the worst under all healers.

I don't want say that ap heal > career ressources. Because at least it depens a lot from the enemey and how much room they give you. I just want to show some benefits from pure ap heals.


Another thing is the Dok/Wp need to be in the frontline. First of all when you play your WP / Dok pure as backline healer you waste a lot of potential. It is possible but not that effectiv. But that is not the point.
Every class except of the tank need a guard to be longer in the frontline. DOK / WP is not an exception here. It has a AOE detaunt yes but AOE detaunt < Guard and you need to waste a lot of renown points to get it. When you try to build a grp and you have a frontline dd you also add a tank for him. At least every frontline char has some kind of exit abilitys dok/WP has none.
So the place from WP/DOK is not the frontline for me the place its between frontline and backline there is the place were a dok/wp shine.

Ps. When you remove the ways that a wp/dok can reg fury without to be near an enemy. For example remove sublication. It direct destroy this class in every fight when he just can't be in the frontline or between frontline & backline. Keepfights for example or when the enemy is so overwhelming that the frontline = instant dead is.