Daemonic Withering/Coordinated Fire - Undefendable/Reduced CD

[Knightningale]

I think both Bozzax and Daniilpb made excellent points actually in that engi and magus just don't seem to have many appealing points for groups to bring them in outside of the fun factor and pulls or AoEs. I mean you can probably just bring a Sorc or BW and get the job done with a much shorter TTK rotation and can spend less time being stationary. It is easier to assist with a shorter rotation burst too. At the very least this change may bring more assist potential to the two classes and make them more appealing.

Option 2 seems to be more flexible that if you need to switch targets because the dot is cleansed or your teammates decide to change their priorities, you don't need to wait for a whole 20 seconds to do so.

The disrupt vs dodge comparison may be an issue, but tbh if the cd is reduced to like 10s, the difference is relatively smaller than when it is 20s. That being said, if the cd is reduced to 5s, one may argue that engi and magus have the potential to make 4 targets susceptible to 15% more damage at the same time before the 1st withered soul/signal flare finishes its effect, so it may be a bit too much. Therefore 10s cd seems to be a more reasonable choice.

[Bozzax]

Both classes are good during keep siege vs ungrouped players. I fail to see what your point is?

Debuffing 4 targets +15% would require 4 gcds and takes 15s to apply = just not worth it ever nor is it op or serves any real purpose. Group clns render tab/spam even more irrelevant.

It would be relevant in group play and make M/E potentially somthing more then a just solo ganker / pull bot.

[Spierron]

Solution 1 can be good if just the application is undefendable and not damage tic
Solution 2 very strong for a free tactic

[anarchypark]

20s CD skill running 20s is permanent apply.
20s + tactic slot is not enough drawback for these extremely good skills.
disrupt and cleanse are counter play.

i didn't wanna derail it to disrupt talk but
advantage of range VS. 20% avoidance of global access which require investment.
from there, both attacker and defender can further invest according stats.
it's not an issue.
ok, back to topic.

engie/magus don't need buff.
giving them super skill(IMO) for WB ticket also not a good way.
they are good at siege, bad at roaming.
carry them on the field and they will carry you at the keep.

my alternative suggestion :
lower dmg amplify to 5~10% from 15%
lower CD to 10~15 from 20sec
not sure about run time.

IF devs agree with issue.
I still don't agree with it.

[Renork]

20s CD skill running 20s is permanent apply.
20s + tactic slot is not enough drawback for these extremely good skills.
disrupt and cleanse are counter play.

i didn't wanna derail it to disrupt talk but
advantage of range VS. 20% avoidance of global access which require investment.
from there, both attacker and defender can further invest according stats.
it's not an issue.
ok, back to topic.

engie/magus don't need buff.
giving them super skill(IMO) for WB ticket also not a good way.
they are good at siege, bad at roaming.
carry them on the field and they will carry you at the keep.

my alternative suggestion :
lower dmg amplify to 5~10% from 15%
lower CD to 10~15 from 20sec
not sure about run time.

IF devs agree with issue.
I still don't agree with it.

Did you not read Peter's solution 2?

[peterthepan3]

20s CD skill running 20s is permanent apply.
20s + tactic slot is not enough drawback for these extremely good skills.
disrupt and cleanse are counter play.

It seems a bit OTT to me that investing in easily-accessible D/D stats that require very little investment for huge returns should be considered a fair means of effectively neutering an entire tactic.

i didn't wanna derail it to disrupt talk but
advantage of range VS. 20% avoidance of global access which require investment.
from there, both attacker and defender can further invest according stats.
it's not an issue.

Well, it is an issue for some - hence the proposal. Many Magi (Magi in particular, due to D/D, though I daresay the same can be argued for Engineer to an extent) don't use the tactic in PvP - even though on paper it is an 'extremely good skill' - because it is so easy to defend against. Even if you get it on the target, it can then be cleansed immediately after - just to add further salt to the wound.

engie/magus don't need buff.
giving them super skill(IMO) for WB ticket also not a good way.

This isn't a skill you would use in WB play. It's for the ST Magus/Engineer, and the proposal pertains to the ST spec in group play. Blanket statements like 'magus don't need buff' do not add anything to the discussion, and downplay the importance of these discussions.

they are good at siege, bad at roaming.
carry them on the field and they will carry you at the keep.

This doesn't add anything to the discussion, bears no relevance to the tactic proposal, and the fact that you view the class bad at roaming would warrant asking why this is the case, and what we can do to alleviate it, no?

Just a warning to all: making sweeping statements like 'this class/spec doesn't need a buff!', without expanding on why, will not be accepted in these discussion boards. If you're going to make bold statements like this, you must back it up.

[szejoza]

Why not go for something in between like, 10% amplified dmg with 10s cd but also reduced DoT time to 9s (so it would not make all engies/magi debuff spreading machines). I realise it's a core tactic and my experience with engi might not be even close to the guys talking here but from what I take the skill is really lackluster and tactic is plain bad.

With the tactic slotted our engi/magus becomes more fit for small scale with the dmg amplification and short cd/duration makes it more useful in dynamic plays (even if it gets disrupted we can use it again shortly). Also reduced DoT time will make the DoT deal more damage per tick. Imo it would bring some fresh air to both classes, especially for roamers/solos/small scales.
For bigger scale it will work as a nice debuff but won't be in any way overpowered.

[dansari]

The disrupt vs dodge comparison may be an issue, but tbh if the cd is reduced to like 10s, the difference is relatively smaller than when it is 20s. That being said, if the cd is reduced to 5s, one may argue that engi and magus have the potential to make 4 targets susceptible to 15% more damage at the same time before the 1st withered soul/signal flare finishes its effect, so it may be a bit too much. Therefore 10s cd seems to be a more reasonable choice.

If the cooldown was moved to 5s, the length would likely not stay at 20s (would be moved to 10s or less), as there's few other abilities in the game that have 400% uptime. But, 5s cooldown and 10s application is consistent with many other abilities. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[Spierron]

Just a warning to all: making sweeping statements like 'this class/spec doesn't need a buff!', without expanding on why, will not be accepted in these discussion boards. If you're going to make bold statements like this, you must back it up.

is a core tactic
Why not look at those who are available on the path if you want to improve a build.
Would be rather interesting to make changes on these tactic.

[peterthepan3]

Just a warning to all: making sweeping statements like 'this class/spec doesn't need a buff!', without expanding on why, will not be accepted in these discussion boards. If you're going to make bold statements like this, you must back it up.

is a core tactic
Why not look at those who are available on the path if you want to improve a build.
Would be rather interesting to make changes on these tactic.

Doesn't excuse sweeping statements that add nothing to discussion. Whether or not a tactic is core or not doesn't negate from the fact that said tactic may be underperforming, and the discussion revolves around one tactic; we are not discussing other tactics in this proposal.

If you have some innovative suggestions for other tactics, by all means make a proposal.