Initiative Scaling/Stacking: An Experiment

[Bozzax]

Thats still 4 talismans slots and 30 renown points of investment just to be in somewhat safe numbers for crits. They still gona have around 40% to crit you.
And all classes still need armor to deal with the WL debuff. Light Armor classes have like 300 armor after this debuff

Check your math. Assuming 200 Initiative debuff you get 350 - 200 = 150 --> 350/(150/10) = 23,3% chance to be critically hit. Three levels into futile strikes gives you -15 ---> 8,3% chance to be critically hit.

In regards to the huge investment... if I remember correcetly I have about 330 Initiative on my BW without any investment. Aside from that any decent group should have Initiative buffs somewhere (usually zealot/rp).

Yep 350 always was (and is the sweetspot)

Still 330 wo investment isn’t the norm. A meleee dok for example won’t get 330 even with 120 renown and a 50 from a zele (123 + 120 + 50)

@293 you end up at 37,6% base to be crit. Add incoming increasers and out going crits = ~60-70% or death in 2-3 gcds from Blurring Shock proc meta

A good rule of thumb: anything above 10-15% inc damage groupwide is likely broken. When a spammable effect surpasses WE’s 10s every 60s M3 +50% crit incoming debuff and is one realm only well ... I’d be inclined to say ”likely broken” becomes ”obviously broken”.

E: No stacking ini isn’t a viable counter as shown in mdok example above. Yes you can use tallies to reach over 293 but point remain

[Cimba]

Yep 350 always was (and is the sweetspot)

Still 330 wo investment isn’t the norm. A meleee dok for example won’t get 330 even with 120 renown and a 50 from a zele (123 + 120 + 50)

@293 you end up at 37,6% base to be crit. Add incoming increasers and out going crits = ~60-70% or death in 2-3 gcds from Blurring Shock proc meta

A good rule of thumb: anything above 10% inc damage groupwide is likely broken.

When a spammable effect surpasses WE’s once Evert 60s M3 +50% crit incoming debuff and is one realm only well ... I’d be inclined to say ”likely broken” becomes ”obviously broken”.

Yeah melee doks are kind of **** against ASW. WE on the other hand dont care too much, do they? Anyway the Blurring Shock meta got a pretty hefty nerf when Heavens Blade was made useless. I mean for how much does it hit against maxed out resistance and guarded targets? Like 70 damage with taunt? Melee doks should be easily capable of healing through that

If you go by your rule of the thumb you would have to remove every armor debuff (and most resistance debuffs for that matter) from the game

[Bozzax]

You mean when the ”Aza fix” to the class he mained got reverted? (a 17-22% damage increase)

Nod the debuffs you mentioned are what meta is built around and they are so strong classes missing them never make a serious group. That is my point

Armor and resist debuffs are more or less same on both realms

[Toldavf]

Yep 350 always was (and is the sweetspot)

Still 330 wo investment isn’t the norm. A meleee dok for example won’t get 330 even with 120 renown and a 50 from a zele (123 + 120 + 50)

@293 you end up at 37,6% base to be crit. Add incoming increasers and out going crits = ~60-70% or death in 2-3 gcds from Blurring Shock proc meta

A good rule of thumb: anything above 10% inc damage groupwide is likely broken.

When a spammable effect surpasses WE’s once Evert 60s M3 +50% crit incoming debuff and is one realm only well ... I’d be inclined to say ”likely broken” becomes ”obviously broken”.

Yeah melee doks are kind of **** against ASW. WE on the other hand dont care too much, do they? Anyway the Blurring Shock meta got a pretty hefty nerf when Heavens Blade was made useless. I mean for how much does it hit against maxed out resistance and guarded targets? Like 70 damage with taunt? Melee doks should be easily capable of healing through that

If you go by your rule of the thumb you would have to remove every armor debuff (and most resistance debuffs for that matter) from the game

1 hit for 70 is a joke, 10 per second is not.

[dansari]

Yep 350 always was (and is the sweetspot)

Still 330 wo investment isn’t the norm. A meleee dok for example won’t get 330 even with 120 renown and a 50 from a zele (123 + 120 + 50)

@293 you end up at 37,6% base to be crit. Add incoming increasers and out going crits = ~60-70% or death in 2-3 gcds from Blurring Shock proc meta

A good rule of thumb: anything above 10% inc damage groupwide is likely broken.

When a spammable effect surpasses WE’s once Evert 60s M3 +50% crit incoming debuff and is one realm only well ... I’d be inclined to say ”likely broken” becomes ”obviously broken”.

Yeah melee doks are kind of **** against ASW. WE on the other hand dont care too much, do they? Anyway the Blurring Shock meta got a pretty hefty nerf when Heavens Blade was made useless. I mean for how much does it hit against maxed out resistance and guarded targets? Like 70 damage with taunt? Melee doks should be easily capable of healing through that

If you go by your rule of the thumb you would have to remove every armor debuff (and most resistance debuffs for that matter) from the game

1 hit for 70 is a joke, 10 per second is not.

Sounds exactly like how Loudmouth works

[Cimba]

You mean when the ”Aza fix” to the class he mained got reverted? (a 17-22% damage increase)

Nod the debuffs you mentioned are what meta is built around and they are so strong classes missing them never make a serious group. That is my point

Armor and resist debuffs are more or less same on both realms

That 22% seems wrong. When 40% mitigation is 672 resistance than 22% would require something like a 370 resistance debuff. Wasnt maxed out HB something like 250 resistance debuff? That would be around 15%.

Yeah the debuffs are kind of on par now. Execpt for elemental debuffs. But well BWs are imba anyway with FF&BT, right?

1 hit for 70 is a joke, 10 per second is not.

If you consider the high elf boi band of ASW, SM, WL + KOTBS for e.g. scenarios than 3 out of 4 players will wield 2h. It's not like the auto attacks are raining down on you. So the only thing you would have to worry about are probably the ASW channels. Which you can interupt. But even with channels I doubt you can stuff 10 attacks into one second for extended periods of time.
But well I could be wrong of course.

[roadkillrobin]

Thats still 4 talismans slots and 30 renown points of investment just to be in somewhat safe numbers for crits. They still gona have around 40% to crit you.
And all classes still need armor to deal with the WL debuff. Light Armor classes have like 300 armor after this debuff

Check your math. Assuming 200 Initiative debuff you get 350 - 200 = 150 --> 350/(150/10) = 23,3% chance to be critically hit. Three levels into futile strikes gives you -15 ---> 8,3% chance to be critically hit.

In regards to the huge investment... if I remember correcetly I have about 330 Initiative on my BW without any investment. Aside from that any decent group should have Initiative buffs somewhere (usually zealot/rp).

Thats jus the chance to be crit, then you have around 20 from the class itself thats attacking you and another 10 from buffs/debuffs from other classes abilties. So you're still around 40% to be crit from a class like WL even tho you just invested 4 talismansslots and 30 renown points. It's a really bad deal.

[Bozzax]

You mean when the ”Aza fix” to the class he mained got reverted? (a 17-22% damage increase)

Nod the debuffs you mentioned are what meta is built around and they are so strong classes missing them never make a serious group. That is my point

Armor and resist debuffs are more or less same on both realms

That 22% seems wrong. When 40% mitigation is 672 resistance than 22% would require something like a 370 resistance debuff. Wasnt maxed out HB something like 250 resistance debuff? That would be around 15%.

Yeah the debuffs are kind of on par now. Execpt for elemental debuffs. But well BWs are imba anyway with FF&BT, right?

Used 378 since I was to lazy to look it up (at wrk)

[Dabbart]

I love how some people try to actually utilize math to understand issues, and others just toss random ass **** in the air and hope no one double checks their work.

Thanks for trying Cimba. But your just banging your head against a wall.

[Cimba]

I love how some people try to actually utilize math to understand issues, and others just toss random ass **** in the air and hope no one double checks their work.

Thanks for trying Cimba. But your just banging your head against a wall.

Yeah I know. Thats why I usually dont post anymore. But I was bored this afternoon