Feedback from a veteran Shadow Warrior + suggestions

[Ugle]

I agree scout is useless outside perfect situation (scenario with your team controlling the battle, i.e dominating, where you can spam your turret style abilities).

I also agree that skirm spec dmg is lacking, even sustained dmg, which the spec seems designed around.

Assault on the other hand synergises well with both WL, WH and even BW, (SS in, unload considerable burst).

Apart from that your analysis is faulty imho. Mobility synergy with WL is good, combined burst of WH/WL/BW and ASW is good, rkd in skirm is good for disabling healers etc, spammable heal debuff is good.

Seems you want to kill guarded, healed targets on your own, which imo you should not be able to.

[anarchypark]

SW is one of best debuffer and leecher.

your target list shows as if everything is bad target.
I say everthing can be target.
do you know acid have armor and block debuff ?
you can even assist overextended enemy tanks.
assist everything.

skirmisher is best kiter build.
burst build is scout.
why compare skirmisher with WL and slayer burst build?
it only exaggerate dmg difference.

you look like skirmisher. how is your stance dance working in grp play?
how is back and forth kiting?
you should do it.

[jasonX]

I agree scout is useless outside perfect situation (scenario with your team controlling the battle, i.e dominating, where you can spam your turret style abilities).

I also agree that skirm spec dmg is lacking, even sustained dmg, which the spec seems designed around.

Assault on the other hand synergises well with both WL, WH and even BW, (SS in, unload considerable burst).

Apart from that your analysis is faulty imho. Mobility synergy with WL is good, combined burst of WH/WL/BW and ASW is good, rkd in skirm is good for disabling healers etc, spammable heal debuff is good.

Seems you want to kill guarded, healed targets on your own, which imo you should not be able to.

Well first you say that 2 out of 3 specs are non viable.... and then that the class is really ok and I just want to kill guarded targets. Man you confuse me.

[jasonX]

SW is one of best debuffer and leecher.

your target list shows as if everything is bad target.
I say everthing can be target.
do you know acid have armor and block debuff ?
you can even assist overextended enemy tanks.
assist everything.

skirmisher is best kiter build.
burst build is scout.
why compare skirmisher with WL and slayer burst build?
it only exaggerate dmg difference.

you look like skirmisher. how is your stance dance working in grp play?
how is back and forth kiting?
you should do it.

Acid arrow is a stationary casted ability that removed 900 armor. I do know that and I do analyze that on my post. Take some time to read it and dont just spam "SWs are imba please dont boost them".

Skirmisher the best kiting build.... OK so shamans and Squigs kite worse than a SW... ok.... no comment....

I switch stances between assault and skirmisher mainly and sometimes on scout to make 4 second silence. I am an experienced SW. Sometimes i switch to assault for the armor penetration bonus because everyone has a ton of armor nowadays. The 5 seconds cooldown on stance change is really killing me (literally).
I am an expert on kiting but by just kiting you stop putting debuff and damage pressure on your target. you cannot dive if you kite. You maybe forget that the aim in a scenario or a combat is not for me to survive to see my warband or party slaughtered and the scenario lost.... Thats the squig you are talking about

[Gracely]

I agree with the original post and I agree that the SW somehow seems to be avoided when patches come out but thats me I guess. But useless? I wouldnt say that either and I do agree on the stance cooldown. Stealth on a SW on any stance? Never going to happen. SW's should be looked into though with an honest approach, not a suspicious eye. Don't be scared to look into the SW in future.

[vanbuinen77]

Maras also deal with stance dancing. Your class is here to provide debuffs and pressure. You can attack any class and you need to assist.

This is not a 1vs1 game

You are not a bw and the sw never will be a burst class like on live.

[jasonX]

I have updated the recommendations section on the original post. I believe the changes suggested now are not as radical as they were initially. Take a look and comment please.

[Fenris78]

Maras also deal with stance dancing. Your class is here to provide debuffs and pressure. You can attack any class and you need to assist.
This is not a 1vs1 game
You are not a bw and the sw never will be a burst class like on live.

Squig herders, wich are meant to be the "mirror class" of SW, are both a burst class (at least in squig form) AND without the burden of stance switching, got the exact same skills for distance, and a whole lot of powerful melee abilities, not to mention the added value of defensive buffs (pets confusing targeting and getting buffs, auto-detaunt and run speed, pounce to close/flee, and so on).
Not to mention double number of skills on their melee spec wich gets you basically a more tanky WL.

Why they got the best combo of abilities without real tradeoff, without being burdened with cumbersome mechanic, and SW got half the tools, in far more cumbersome flavor ?

We dont absolutely want the oneshot abilities of a Sorcerer, nor the AoE power of a BW, but it may be possible to do something to give SW a bit more firepower, at least more damage and/or more ergonomic/less restricting stance mechanics ?

Can SW be more of a ranged DPS, rather than a mere "debuffer/leecher/kiter" that do little pressure on some (weak) targets ?

So yes, SW can do debuff :
- Spammable ST heal debuff (10 pts in skirmish) that can be cleansed
- ST distant kd (14 pts skirmish) every 20s
- ST snare every 15s (cleansable as well)
- ST armor/block debuff every 30s (again cleansable)
- A combo to AoE avoidances debuff with the use of 2 tactics

Everything of these can be accomplished by a Squig Herder, without the hassle of any class mechanic with 5s cd.
And he can tank, burst and flee, that a SW is incapable of, by miles.

Say again, SW best debuffer/kiter in the game ?

At least being a mirrored class of the Squig Herder (or supposedly meant to fulfill same role/utility), can the SW expect same bangs for his bucks, meaning less defensive/tanky tools than SH = more/better offensive ones ?

Simply asking for a balance here, not an OP autokilleverything class (we already got Sorc/Magus), or yes, if you consider SW to be OP then ok, deal, make the SW as OP as well...

[Manatikik]

Wait. Do people actually think SH is better than SW besides solo kiting and Melee Squig WB spec?

Really feels like the SW’s posting in this thread either don’t understand the class and it’s place in a group or just want to change what that is to mirror BW. SW is currently excelling in small man play and is garbage in WB (granted every order dps besides BW and slayer and garbage in WB).

SW is not a primary DPS class, plain and simple. It’s a secondary DPS and it excels at that job.

[DanielWinner]

Wait. Do people actually think SH is better than SW besides solo kiting and Melee Squig WB spec?

Really feels like the SW’s posting in this thread either don’t understand the class and it’s place in a group or just want to change what that is to mirror BW. SW is currently excelling in small man play and is garbage in WB (granted every order dps besides BW and slayer and garbage in WB).

SW is not a primary DPS class, plain and simple. It’s a secondary DPS and it excels at that job.

I would not bring range SW to any small scale group nowadays. I tried it and got just bitched by mara+SH (rSH > rSW was proven many times and it’s still the same). I learnt my lesson so should others. Other day my group also killed Kajtarn group with him on range SW so if even best SWs of this server can’t make it work, I doubt it worth any time. Only melee spec is decent enough.

Range builds are good for solo kill steals. Don’t even join WB, you will just take someone’s spot.
For a small scale RvR group, I’d better pick WL and BW.