Archmage/Shaman

[Ramlaen]

Movement speed buffs need to break on ability use.

[catholicism198]

This isn't a 1v1 game.
No balance change should be made in favor or against that.

Fixing their mechanic is far more important than anything else.

The only time I enjoyed healing with them was when the "juggling" mechanic was in play.

[Crumbs]

Fodg/eov is the single most powerful healing ability in the game undisputed, there's a learning curve behind it and there are situations where it is less effective, an ability like that should not be allowed to be over utilised. Imo Shaman and AM have never been in the same boat because of their tactic and aoe detaunt ability differences, this applies to both specs.

[emiliorv]

Movement speed buffs need to break on ability use.

but but but...runaway tactic have been the same for the last 12 years, so that must mean that is working as intended. => case closed.

[Sulorie]

Man my friends and I have been those three guys. Permanent AP drain on one threat, permanent single-target detaunt on another, aoe detaunt 50% uptime, 30% runspeed boost renders pounce/shadowstep useless... they are MACHINES at getting away. They're everywhere now, everyone is realising how good they are and now you can't go anywhere without drowning in shamans, i'm all "can't beat 'em join 'em" and levelling my own.

Where you see all those shamans? I guess it is normal to see any other class stacked in sc.
Can you explain the 50% uptime of aoe detaunt?

[NSKaneda]

Man my friends and I have been those three guys. Permanent AP drain on one threat, permanent single-target detaunt on another, aoe detaunt 50% uptime, 30% runspeed boost renders pounce/shadowstep useless... they are MACHINES at getting away. They're everywhere now, everyone is realising how good they are and now you can't go anywhere without drowning in shamans, i'm all "can't beat 'em join 'em" and levelling my own.

Where you see all those shamans? I guess it is normal to see any other class stacked in sc.
Can you explain the 50% uptime of aoe detaunt?

25% chance of getting autodetaunt on every blow that lands, including AA - that's one in four, with high enough WP and dodge/disrupt it can keep itself up without having to manage it since it procs on everything. This gives you time inbetween Stop hittin me (uptime of which can be boosted with cdecreasers and so on).
High crit chance + one or two crit tactics will ensure high enough hot crit values to free up some GCDs to use survival skills... Until proper anti shaman tools are applied (and those are really rarely used by order).

There are a few AMs that are nearly unkillable, you can always tell those that mash buttons from those that use skills.

[MedV]

I can only talk about AM, since I don't fight Shamans regularly, but I'm assuming many of these things apply both ways.

What seems to me the combination of things that make AM OP is not their damage, but it is their damage combined with their survivability. Whenever I fight AMs their health rarely drops below 50%, even when I'm bursting at maximum potential. Likely this is happening through a combination of Shield of Saphery and lifetap healing. I know for a fact that AMs tend to have very low health pools, yet damage simply doesn't get through. This becomes painfully obvious when a double pot takes them from ~25% health back up to ~100% health, showing that the last minute you've spent barely denting what can only be around a ~6k health pool. What is more painful; this even happens when I outgear my opponents significantly.

Another option they have that seems broken to me, is the ability to DoT their targets, detaunt and then keep themselves up with a combination of lifetap healing, normal healing and Shield of Saphery.

The simple issue is this: a ranged class that has this amount of utility and damage, should not be getting such an amount of survivability for free, through class skills/mechanics.

I see two potential fixes for this:

- A small-ish damage decrease over the board. This knife cuts both ways, because a reduction in damage also constitutes a reduction in (self-)healing done. To compensate I would consider increasing the damage of AM pure damage spec.

- Change "defensive target" to no longer apply to the player, and only to group mates. This would leave AM's usefulness in groups intact, while targeting their survivability, which is where the problem lies.

At risk of repeating myself, I've spoken about AM because I play this class and play against this class regularly, and these are the problems I encountered. I don't hesitate that Order encounters the same issues when fighting Shamans, so don't take this as a one-sided argument to nerf Order. Wherever this logic can be applied to Shamans, it should.

Thanks for reading,

- Caduceus

Everyone here is saying how the AM has the lowest survivability and is the squishiest healer. And you are here asking to nerf it’s survivability. I’m in shock.

[Caduceus]

Everyone here is saying how the AM has the lowest survivability and is the squishiest healer. And you are here asking to nerf it’s survivability. I’m in shock.

It should be noted that I am talking about small-scale, and about DPS AM in particular.

If people disagree that DPS AM is too tanky for the amount of DPS it deals, then they are simply wrong. Don't know how else to put it.

[Sulorie]

25% chance of getting autodetaunt on every blow that lands, including AA - that's one in four, with high enough WP and dodge/disrupt it can keep itself up without having to manage it since it procs on everything. This gives you time inbetween Stop hittin me (uptime of which can be boosted with cdecreasers and so on).
High crit chance + one or two crit tactics will ensure high enough hot crit values to free up some GCDs to use survival skills... Until proper anti shaman tools are applied (and those are really rarely used by order).

There are a few AMs that are nearly unkillable, you can always tell those that mash buttons from those that use skills.

Auto detaunt tactic gives only 25% dmg reduction on itself. It helps but I don't consider it a full detaunt.

Stop hittin me, the only true aoe detaunt, has 33-40% uptime.

Crit chance can be high but which TWO crit tactic?

Order have the tools, when they rarely use them, I guess it is their fault.

[Sulorie]

Everyone here is saying how the AM has the lowest survivability and is the squishiest healer. And you are here asking to nerf it’s survivability. I’m in shock.

It should be noted that I am talking about small-scale, and about DPS AM in particular.

If people disagree that DPS AM is too tanky for the amount of DPS it deals, then they are simply wrong. Don't know how else to put it.

They are not tanky and they heal nothing with a littlebit more than 200 willpower and -40% healing. You maybe mean lifeleech which itself isn't hard to counter either. Cleanse, absorb, challenge, guard, disrupt or detaunt are your options.

If you roam solo on a class not good at solo play, it is your fault. You should play to your strengths and in the case you want to do something else, team up, so others can cover your weaknesses.