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Pounce/Leap feedback

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emiliorv
Posts: 1341

Re: Pounce/Leap feedback

Post#31 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:30 pm

Sundowner wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:13 pm
emiliorv wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:06 pm
Sundowner wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:34 pm
Spoiler:

WL main says "Git gud" because you clearly should not be dominated by WLs and SWs in ranked as you are describing, nothing personal.

Yes I have played ranked as WL+aSW, even yesterday, which did not feel like "dominating" at all. Played as 2 WL several matches, won against several enemies (mainly badly equipped/specced) and lost against good WE+mara.

Yes, I have played in cities with separate AOE and ST groups in both in AOE and ST and played against most of top destro wbs. Never I have seen what you are describing as pouncing WLs with ENERMOUS aoe damage. Only thing I think was overtuned for city WL was pounce+finisher, which allowed for fast switching to targets, this was removed from mastery tree change and I was pro this choice. see? I don't whine for my class to be stronger, I did not whine when pounce damage was removed, because it gave big bonus to burst damage (also pet stat addition did not greatly compensated for that), I did not whine when pet skill stat modifiers were changed making pet damage useless outside trained to kill.

I made this post because reducing WL/mSH mobility to other mdps kills whole idea of class.

Maybe you didnt know about this thread because happened just when you joined ROR, but well...there was life before any of us joined the server:
viewtopic.php?f=76&t=36612&hilit=whirling+axe&start=30

Things have changed since then, but still WL is a solid mdps, lets not pretend that WLs are useless mdps hitting like wet noodles...check some vids of solid guilds => on Xergon channel (youtube ) you can find some vids of TUP
You are a known troll for now
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Sundowner wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:13 pm I say that labeling WL damage as ENERMOUS is plainly wrong, because slayer/choppa deal more dmg, and mara/sh deal roughly the same dmg by having more utility.

TUP vs FMJ => whos the top mdps??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUiiXpSSLMw&t=1535s

On a side note: i really dont care about the change to reduce the range for gap closers, but stop lying. Maybe you need to ask in TUP for some tips to start to perfom better with your WL

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Yshra
Posts: 28

Re: Pounce/Leap feedback

Post#32 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:57 pm

I wonder if dev knows what they are doing. The main feature of WL nerfed... I can hear some arguments, but this range reduction makes this skill now a bit useless. We cant go on healer in backline easily, so I think it encourages people to play more range on Order and Order doesnt need that. A big disadvantage on WL is that almot all CC are on pet, it dies quickly, and the pet is slow (need a tactic) so nerf our mobility is very problematic. But, the main problem of this patch, and maybe some of you can explain me, but why pounce is in Pet Tree now, it makes no sense. Echoing roar is a pet combined talent, so it makes sense in this path, but pounce? I dont get it.

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Lithenir
Posts: 370

Re: Pounce/Leap feedback

Post#33 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:12 pm

VindicoAtrum wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:11 pm
Have seen WL discussions on whether to even take pounce now, if it wasn't for the fact it got damage back to dismount I expect it wouldn't even be a discussion, just a flat ignore.
Not to be disrespectful or something but only fools used pounce to dismount someone.
You always use Axe Throw and when the target is dismounted you use pounce. This was and always will be the right way. Even with 65ft range and dmg you used Axe Throw to dismount. Right now Axe Throw still has 65ft range (even though wargrimnir said in a stream it would be next).
The sad thing is, I remember Wargrimnir once wrote something about reworked SH like "QS has it's ups but for that you have to live with shorter range because there should always be a risk". The risk was the shorter range of 65ft and the range increase tactic gone... A week later the range could be increased with a special Squig. Now one or 2 weeks after that we have the shortened pounce... Guess life as rSH is not so risky anymore.

The biggest problem I see with the shortened range is that all the game seems to get even closer together... Soon the zerg blob will be even bigger because everything got a shorter range.

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wonshot
Posts: 1192

Re: Pounce/Leap feedback

Post#34 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:28 am

Is this a Whitelion only topic or where are the unhappy MSHs :P

First of all I think it is important to point out, that when leap or pounce has this short range it needs to make you land on the target, and not the previous location. Or the traveltime from you take off and till you land on the distnation is pretty much same as it would take you to walk 45ft. If this ends up being a pounce spammed on top of a moving target and never being in range of using a melee snare, the ability is not really a gabcloser. Unless the intention is for catching backliners who are still standing and not a chasedown tool (charge fits this?)

Ive done about 50 scenarios so far split between my sorc, bw and MSH after this change.
I managed to "kite" one squigherder by simply turning and running while he was showing sign of trying to leap on me, as a result i couldnt cast anything but instans and it pushed me out of the fight as long as he was fixated on me. Yes i could still dot and do instans but he effectively pushed my safezone back by moving towards me and pushing the battlefront toward me, making me decite if i would detaunt and facetank while hard-casting or dot and keep distance.

Meanwhile on my MSH i could still reach a backline, but nolonger on my own terms. I now severely expose myself and my plan before i reach a maxrange freecasting engineer. Resulting in them having time to detaunt before i land, or setting up an offensive/counter to my attack. It never lead me to a feeling of unfairness, but it for sure forced me to play smarter.
Chasing down targets is not a garenteed kill and cleanup snowball from the Chaser's point of view, instead you push them to retreat while making any remaining frontliners stay overextended to be cleaned up. Is this then just greed making the chasing leapclasses want to play Cleanupcrew? or are we just hearing from solo/smallscale roaming WLs who cant suprice knockdown kill people without them detaunting leading to free kills.

In the even matches where both realms had a lineup where none of the sides would fallover and get stomped, the battlelines between back,mid and frontline were still intact. if a target on the front was getting pressured and a healer had to spam to catch the critical condition, they cant "uproot" and start kiting outside of pounce range without potentially loosing valuable hps. Still opening them up to be swapped to, but now at a choice of them accepting the swap they see coming or they prekite the poince and allow the pouncer to zone them off from healing as effectively potentially.

But as I said initially. for 45feet poince to work, the landing position needs to be on the target and not at the spot they stood when you pressed it.
Bombling 93BW

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Arbich
Suspended
Posts: 788

Re: Pounce/Leap feedback

Post#35 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 3:37 am

wonshot wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:28 am But as I said initially. for 45feet poince to work, the landing position needs to be on the target and not at the spot they stood when you pressed it.
Isn´t this impossible and the reason for the speedbuff (which was as **** addition in past, but maybe justified now) after pounce?
Arbich-BW/Xanthippe-WP/Schnipsel-AM

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Lithenir
Posts: 370

Re: Pounce/Leap feedback

Post#36 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:03 am

wonshot wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:28 am
But as I said initially. for 45feet poince to work, the landing position needs to be on the target and not at the spot they stood when you pressed it.
A long time ago and most recently a dev explained that this is impossible since the client sends the position of the target when you hit the button. To calculate this Mythic used seconds instead of ms like they did for most other stuff. Team already said it would be impossible to change.

So thanks for the suggestion and cripple of pounce I guess :P

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normanis
Posts: 1455
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Re: Pounce/Leap feedback

Post#37 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:12 am

emiliorv wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:30 pm
Sundowner wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:13 pm
emiliorv wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:06 pm

TUP vs FMJ => whos the top mdps??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUiiXpSSLMw&t=1535s

On a side note: i really dont care about the change to reduce the range for gap closers, but stop lying. Maybe you need to ask in TUP for some tips to start to perfom better with your WL
video what clearly shows magus have top dps 4.7 million? and second place is mara 3million? we clearly see how magus outdamage white lion. and it was 17 november. not last friday when mixed up wl stuff
"give wh and witch propper aoe like evrywone has it!"

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oaliaen
Posts: 1217

Re: Pounce/Leap feedback

Post#38 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:42 am

Spoiler:
emiliorv wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:30 pm
Sundowner wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:13 pm
emiliorv wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:06 pm


Maybe you didnt know about this thread because happened just when you joined ROR, but well...there was life before any of us joined the server:
viewtopic.php?f=76&t=36612&hilit=whirling+axe&start=30

Things have changed since then, but still WL is a solid mdps, lets not pretend that WLs are useless mdps hitting like wet noodles...check some vids of solid guilds => on Xergon channel (youtube ) you can find some vids of TUP
You are a known troll for now
Image



Sundowner wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:13 pm I say that labeling WL damage as ENERMOUS is plainly wrong, because slayer/choppa deal more dmg, and mara/sh deal roughly the same dmg by having more utility.

TUP vs FMJ => whos the top mdps??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUiiXpSSLMw&t=1535s

On a side note: i really dont care about the change to reduce the range for gap closers, but stop lying. Maybe you need to ask in TUP for some tips to start to perfom better with your WL
I agree whit you....GOOD Wl players still will dominate anything even whit the nerfs.
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Neverever
Posts: 193

Re: Pounce/Leap feedback

Post#39 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:44 am

Winry wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:45 pm
Neverever wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:55 am
Bozzax wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:16 am So are you also saying pet damage speed and dmg buff along with wl aoe spec should be reverted since it is the WL role to be a pounce ST damage class?
No he just wants them all..
Do you mean like SH? because that class does have it all as a ranged/melee class it's better than SW/WL and marauders in all aspects.

Imagine saying when the WL that's asking to be able to do aoe dmg and ST dmg with pounce (mobility) which was the only thing that the wl had over Marauders with their utility and survivability that the WL doesn't have.
Is asking to just wants them all..

Hilarious.
Can you please elaborate in what sense SH is better than SW and WL ? As a player played all these classes I find your statement delusional. SW is better than SH in term of melee, yes SW melee dmg is not aoe but that doesn't change the fact that SW has better burst and more survivability+ access to some of its ranged abilities. MSH has lost 2 of its highest dmg abilities with the previous change. At the moment it is just Git them and ard noggin spam in terms of single target dmg, which is a joke. Comparing SH melee dmg to WL is a joke since WL by far outperforms MSH in both single dmg and aoe. In term of ranged, SW is better than SH if you know how to play that class. SW is better on long range. Scout SW is the only class along with engi that can kill someone in 3 sec KD time. In short range SW is still better since it can use most of its abilities from 100ft still as long as the aoe tactic is not slotted. And when aoe tatcic is sloted it is a good aoe build for WB play. SO your fantasy world does not represent reality.

lifeson
Posts: 50

Re: Pounce/Leap feedback

Post#40 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:09 pm

Make pounce a baseline skill, revert back to 65ft.
No damage.
10s cooldown increased to 20s.
Loner tactic reduces pounce to 10s cooldown.

Not seeing many lions, they all rerolled slayers lol.

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