motivation killer coppa pull and dps shamie ... ? overtuned?

[NSKaneda]

Funny statement is that gobbo speed cannot be nerfed(especially on shaman which the most broken class imo) because Wl, ONLY Wl will somehow counter them...
Yeah its pretty unfair that could be single class which counter shaman... Shaman has to be superior vs all 12 classes not onyl 11

IBs are real shammie killers and have all the tools to counter and kill them.
SWs can shut them down effectively.
WHs can kill them in one rotation if they know their class. Besides, WHs rarely travel alone...
AMs neutralize shammies and since AM dps is better they will kill them. Eventually.
RPs in dps spec can laugh at shammies.

And then there are, of course, lions

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Shamans have been nerfed consecutively for the most of RoR history and buffing their aoe heals (which initially healed everyone, order included ) is not worthy of a trade off for loosing their proc on damage run away (funny enough SWs keep their guerilla warfare endless speed tactic...), their hybrid spec (healing with dps, fotg is but a shade of hybrid potential when dmg could proc healing crit...), their speedy mechanic, their... They lost a lot. And mostly due to the fact that order somehow refuses to use the tools at their disposal.

[facundo7777]

Funny statement is that gobbo speed cannot be nerfed(especially on shaman which the most broken class imo) because Wl, ONLY Wl will somehow counter them...
Yeah its pretty unfair that could be single class which counter shaman... Shaman has to be superior vs all 12 classes not onyl 11

funny statement is that gobbo speed was nerfed long time ago when dinosaurs live and ppl still write gobo is too fast and we need boost WL. And buff WL will affect sorc magus sh zealot and rest destro chars and ppl dont see this.

iam not calling to buff wl in any single post... just saying about ridicolous shaman state

[lumpi33]

Have you ever compared the Magus/Engi pull with GTDC?

E/M: 13 point ability, 30s cooldown
C: 13 point ability, 20s cooldown

E/M: In a tree that nobody specs deep.
C: In a tree that everybody specs deep.

E/M: 1s cast time. Can't be used on the move.
C: Instant, 6s channel. Can be used on the move.

E/M: Does NO damage at all.
C: Does very good AOE damage.

E/M: On a class without charge.
C: On a class with charge.

E/M: 6 targets max, 75 range
C: 3 targets max, 45? range

E/M: Doesn't pull close.
C: Pulls right on Choppa.

E/M: 4s 40s snare after pull.
C: Up to 6s 20% movement during pulling.

E/M: Doesn't mess up camera.
C: Messes up camera. No minimum range.

There is absolutely no reason why one class should have a 13point in their main spec with 20% movement speed, pulling and aoe damage, instant on a 20s cooldown, while the other DPS classes get it with cast time, no damage, in a secondary spec where they don't have the points for and on a 30s cooldown.

There is also absolutely no reason why on side should have two good pull classes with charge while the other has only one with a buggy pet pull.

The pull component of GTDC needs to go. It is annoying and overpowered af.

[space44]

this is all giving me a headache everyone talking about numbers and comparing range length and im here wondering how/why this has strayed far off topic from the topic of Coppa.

[Sulorie]

Have you ever compared the Magus/Engi pull with GTDC?

Spoiler:

E/M: 13 point ability, 30s cooldown
C: 13 point ability, 20s cooldown

E/M: In a tree that nobody specs deep.
C: In a tree that everybody specs deep.

E/M: 1s cast time. Can't be used on the move.
C: Instant, 6s channel. Can be used on the move.

E/M: Does NO damage at all.
C: Does very good AOE damage.

E/M: On a class without charge.
C: On a class with charge.

E/M: 6 targets max, 75 range
C: 3 targets max, 45? range

E/M: Doesn't pull close.
C: Pulls right on Choppa.

E/M: 4s 40s snare after pull.
C: Up to 6s 20% movement during pulling.

E/M: Doesn't mess up camera.
C: Messes up camera. No minimum range.

There is absolutely no reason why one class should have a 13point in their main spec with 20% movement speed, pulling and aoe damage, instant on a 20s cooldown, while the other DPS classes get it with cast time, no damage, in a secondary spec where they don't have the points for and on a 30s cooldown.

There is also absolutely no reason why on side should have two good pull classes with charge while the other has only one with a buggy pet pull.

The pull component of GTDC needs to go. It is annoying and overpowered af.

Your very biased list gives still no reason, why it should be changed aside from the camera turning. Do you want to replace it with something worth 13 points like ID?

[lumpi33]

Your very biased list gives still no reason, why it should be changed aside from the camera turning. Do you want to replace it with something worth 13 points like ID?

And your very biased comment gives still no reason, why it shouldn't be changed. That you don't even mention the pulling through floors, down ramps, outside/inside doors, into objects where you can't move etc. makes your comment even more biased.

Why should one class have a 14pt ability that does 4 things with one button press (movement speed, aoe damage, pull/gap closer, interrupt) and the other - also DPS class - get a similar ability for 14 points that does far less. Unless you can answer me that question your comment is just your opinion, nothing else.

The gcd changes makes the 4 in 1 even better.

Melee dps is over the top with their aoe. Everybody knows that. The other utility on top of it with one button press makes it waaay over the top.

Bottom line is: Engi/Magus pull got nerfed hard so that it is pretty much a gimmik with no use now. It got nerfed because people were annoyed of it - and it didn't even do damage and was not useable on the move. How can anyone argue that choppa GTDC is still fine then?

[Arla]

What is the biggest motivation killer right now, more than any balance forum topic, is that over more than a month ago the GCD patch borke a couple of abilities.
Some of them got fixed rather fast, others are still on bugtracker and have not been given any attention.

When stuff break after a patch, especially just normal abilities. it would really suck big time to let them linger in a broken state, as it has been the case for more than a month. and no sign about it getting adressed.

that, is a motivation killer

Yes, fix BO punt, it was bad before now is horrible in a class hindered by a terrible mechanic that gate your abilities in 1 or 2 global cooldown. And Coppa is awesome with a melon slice.

I agree. Fix Borc punt. As terrible as it is.

[Sulorie]

Your very biased list gives still no reason, why it should be changed aside from the camera turning. Do you want to replace it with something worth 13 points like ID?

And your very biased comment gives still no reason, why it shouldn't be changed. That you don't even mention the pulling through floors, down ramps, outside/inside doors, into objects where you can't move etc. makes your comment even more biased.

Why should one class have a 14pt ability that does 4 things with one button press (movement speed, aoe damage, pull/gap closer, interrupt) and the other - also DPS class - get a similar ability for 14 points that does far less. Unless you can answer me that question your comment is just your opinion, nothing else.

The gcd changes makes the 4 in 1 even better.

Melee dps is over the top with their aoe. Everybody knows that. The other utility on top of it with one button press makes it waaay over the top.

Bottom line is: Engi/Magus pull got nerfed hard so that it is pretty much a gimmik with no use now. It got nerfed because people were annoyed of it - and it didn't even do damage and was not useable on the move. How can anyone argue that choppa pull is still fine then?

You don't remove skills, because something else like LoS isn't working as intended in keeps.

Most people who get pulled can actually be seen from below and only a fraction is at best pulled through floors, so don't exaggerate the issue. Sieges don't fail because of it.

GTDC is usually interrupted after first tick and if the choppa can complete the channel the receiving team needs to pay more attention. Hell, when you see Choppas approaching you can already target them and wait for the channel.

Like mentioned a dozen times you share immunities for the most part, as most Choppas use it on cooldown, no matter what.
People in pull range should have a guard tank in range anyway and if not, we are back to "pug life".

A longer range pull with more targets at once, which you can't foresee with added snare is a lot more useful in stationary fights.

You interrupt one target per tick of how many? It is nice but too randomized to actually use it strategically, as you want to interrupt specific targets at the right time.

20% movement speed? Come on... when being pulled back wrecks you, your side was already losing.

Engi/Magus pull wasn't nerfed because pulls are annoying. Pull has a cast time, because you have a skill animation, which takes some time. On a rdps cast time is hardly an issue.


There are half a dozen more serious issues than GTDC.

[Rapzel]

Your very biased list gives still no reason, why it should be changed aside from the camera turning. Do you want to replace it with something worth 13 points like ID?

And your very biased comment gives still no reason, why it shouldn't be changed. That you don't even mention the pulling through floors, down ramps, outside/inside doors, into objects where you can't move etc. makes your comment even more biased.

Why should one class have a 14pt ability that does 4 things with one button press (movement speed, aoe damage, pull/gap closer, interrupt) and the other - also DPS class - get a similar ability for 14 points that does far less. Unless you can answer me that question your comment is just your opinion, nothing else.

The gcd changes makes the 4 in 1 even better.

Melee dps is over the top with their aoe. Everybody knows that. The other utility on top of it with one button press makes it waaay over the top.

Bottom line is: Engi/Magus pull got nerfed hard so that it is pretty much a gimmik with no use now. It got nerfed because people were annoyed of it - and it didn't even do damage and was not useable on the move. How can anyone argue that choppa pull is still fine then?

You don't remove skills, because something else like LoS isn't working as intended in keeps.

Most people who get pulled can actually be seen from below and only a fraction is at best pulled through floors, so don't exaggerate the issue. Sieges don't fail because of it.

GTDC is usually interrupted after first tick and if the choppa can complete the channel the receiving team needs to pay more attention. Hell, when you see Choppas approaching you can already target them and wait for the channel.

Like mentioned a dozen times you share immunities for the most part, as most Choppas use it on cooldown, no matter what.
People in pull range should have a guard tank in range anyway and if not, we are back to

A longer range pull with more targets at once, which you can't foresee with added snare is a lot more useful in stationary fights.

You interrupt one target per tick of how many? It is nice but too randomized to actually use it strategically, as you want to interrupt specific targets at the right time.

20% movement speed? Come on... when being pulled back wreck you, your sides was already losing.

Engi/Magus pull wasn't nerfed because pulls are annoying. Pull has a cast time, because you have a skill animation, which takes some time. On a rdps cast time is hardly an issue.


There are half a dozen more serious issues than GTDC.

You forgot to mention it is also defendable since about 2 years back, so not only do you need to be in range most people who will be that close should have a big possibility of avoiding getting pulled.

Then we get into the even more fun part where people claim that they get pulled from fort walls, which yields the question is why are you on that wall outside giving destro free m4, especially if you can get pulled from them?

[lumpi33]

You don't remove skills, because something else like LoS isn't working as intended in keeps.

Most people who get pulled can actually be seen from below and only a fraction is at best pulled through floors, so don't exaggerate the issue. Sieges don't fail because of it.

GTDC is usually interrupted after first tick and if the choppa can complete the channel the receiving team needs to pay more attention. Hell, when you see Choppas approaching you can already target them and wait for the channel.

Like mentioned a dozen times you share immunities for the most part, as most Choppas use it on cooldown, no matter what.
People in pull range should have a guard tank in range anyway and if not, we are back to

A longer range pull with more targets at once, which you can't foresee with added snare is a lot more useful in stationary fights.

You interrupt one target per tick of how many? It is nice but too randomized to actually use it strategically, as you want to interrupt specific targets at the right time.

20% movement speed? Come on... when being pulled back wreck you, your sides was already losing.

Engi/Magus pull wasn't nerfed because pulls are annoying. Pull has a cast time, because you have a skill animation, which takes some time. On a rdps cast time is hardly an issue.

There are half a dozen more serious issues than GTDC.

I guess we are playing different games.

In your game there is probably only one choppa that gets interrupted after the first tick. Everybody has a guard. Pulls can be foreseen. Engi/Magus pull is ranged because rdps. And there are no LOS and lag issues.

In my game there is a ton of choppas, all spamming GTDC and almost none of them gets interrupted. Only a few have guard and GTDC is pulling you away from guard. Pulls cannot be foreseen. Engi/Magus pull is a casted ability without any range on cast and nobody has it specced because no points for it. There are LOS, lag, getting stuck issues every day.

We must be playing different games because in my game GTDC is annoying af and there is not a single day without complains in the chat about that pull. It is fun taking, it is overpowered. Period.

And again:
Why should one class have a 14pt ability that does 4 things with one button press (movement speed, aoe damage, pull/gap closer, interrupt) and the other - also DPS class - get a similar ability for 14 points that does far less. Unless you can answer me that question your comment is just your opinion, nothing else.