Sm/Bo talk only!!!!!

[Joan]

Az, is there any proposition in that list which couldn't be done due to client limitations? (just to be safe 'n clear)

I think that it's a good list of changes and that we are making progress.

[Azarael]

I can do all of those without issue.

[Coryphaus]

So what we've generally got so far being proposed, from different people:

Black Orc

- Down Ya Go to 9pts
- Arm Breaka into either a steal or a greater drain
- Tuffer 'n' Nails into a group armor buff
- Mor' Hardcore! into a long punt on R'DJ
- Da Toughest! into a group buff

Swordmaster

- Crashing Wave to 9pts
- Sapping Strike into either a steal or a greater drain
- Crushing Advance into a group armor buff
- Phantom's Blade into a group buff
- Redirected Force into a medium punt

? Dragon's Talon into an effectiveness reduction?

On Redirected Force specifically: There's an issue that we have here in that there's no obvious ability to swap with Crashing Wave. Given that T'N on BO is core, I'd suggest the possibility of setting the trees up as the following:

Crushing Advance => Crashing Wave => Redirected Force (long punt + CD increase)

any other potentially game altering changes like pounce can be considred at a later stage of the game

[Joan]

I'm actually very happy with this, and I think many people will be very happy, too.

[dave2278]

I'm actually very happy with this, and I think many people will be very happy, too.

I like those changes.
And If Bo get a allie punt will it be like those Rat ogres? I miss Rat ogres

[Penril]

Oh boy, this is gonna take a while... I will start with BO.

Strengths:

- Possibly the best tank for assisting a pDPS group. Can buff his group's WS up to 128 (and 256 on his friendly target) with NCM tactic. Imho the right tree is pretty much mandatory just for this tactic.
- Has a ST CD increaser which makes his group Unstoppable for 4 secs. The thing i like about NidF is that it is an Ailment and therefore can't be clenased by WPs. Put it on a bad one (who likes to spalm group heals) and he will suffer. Useful against any class that likes to spam one skill.
- Can have a lot of burst thanks to THC, GS and SYG. That's the reason so many people like DPS BOs.
- Spammable AoE snare thanks to BB tactic. Combined with the AoE KB and a Root, it can be really useful.
- Core tactic that increases morale everytime you block. Many BO's never use this tactic, not realizing how fast you can get to M4 with it.

If you want to play to the BO strengths, this would be the spec:

http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=bo; ... 2:;0:0:0:0:

You can swap GwS and YSMBD for SYG and GS if you want more damage.

Weaknesses:

- 2 out of 3 bellows are useless. BOs don't need a self-wounds buff (being tanks they can already achieve insane amounts of wounds). The armor/resist buff is nice but it only procs when the BO is hit. Since tanks are usually the last targets, and they can block a lot of damage anyway, this bello seldom procs. Da Biggest! is fine as it is.
- KD. Their only KD requires a Best Plan! so it is very common to have it available one second later than you wanted it. Also, it requires, 14 points in the middle tree. As i mentioned before, that tree is not recommended if you want to play to the BO's strengths. If you get the KD it means you either forego NiDF or THC.
- ST punt. BOs don't have a way to separate enemy tanks from their guarded allies. This is one of the reasons most premades will go with Chosen/BG.
- Middle tree is, overall, pretty bad and useful only for PvE.

My suggestions:

- Bellows: Almost the same as 1.4.9:
Da Greenest - All your melee attacks gain a 25% chance to reduce all of your target's resists by VALUE0. During this time, both you and your groupmates within 100 feet will benefit from the stolen resist.

I removed the armor steal as to make We'z bigger still useful; it would just need a little buff. As for the armor debuff, BO's already have one.

Da Toughest! - All your melee attacks gain a 25% chance to reduce your target's wounds by VALUE0 for 10 seconds. During this time, both you and your groupmates within 100 feet will benefit from the stolen wounds. You and your groupmates will be healed by the amount increased.

- KD: Swap it with CHM.

- ST punt: Currently they have a tactic (Mor'Hardcore) that gives them a short ST punt on 2 skills (RidJ and YMM). Change the tactic so it increases the range of the punt but only give it to one skill (probly YYM). Give it a long CD since BOs already have an AoE KB. I think anything between 40 secs and 1 minute is ok.

- Middle tree: With the proposed changeds to DYG and MH it would be almost good. Now we need to make CHM viable in PvP: let BO's move while channeling it (currently they have to stand still which is a terrible idea in PvP since most players will just attack you from behind negating any block bonus CHM gives you).

With all these fixes, a defensive pounce won't be necessary. Middle tree will be viable and, on top of the spec i mentioned before, you would have these new 2:



Utility: ST punt, AoE KB and ST KD.
Damage: Good with THC and GS.



Utility: ST punt, AoE KB, ST KD, AoE snare and AoE WS buff.
Damage: No THC or GS.

Basically you get either a DPS spec with a little utility, or a full utility spec with no burst damage. Sounds balanced to me.

[Skorn]

You shouldn't tweak the abilities until we are at lvl 40. And even then you shouldn't tweak them before testing them thoroughly throughout the game at it's full potential. At what lvl we are, it doesn't matter and may reveal itself to be one of the biggest mistake you could have done, and I'm pretty sure that it will be in the forseeable future. You may all think that "you are right and it has to be done", but think twice about it.

[Penril]

reserved for SM

edit: still don't know much about SM's since i only played them to level 20, so nvm

[mickeye]

On Redirected Force specifically: There's an issue that we have here in that there's no obvious ability to swap with Crashing Wave. Given that T'N on BO is core, I'd suggest the possibility of setting the trees up as the following:

Crushing Advance => Crashing Wave => Redirected Force (long punt + CD increase)

If you really want to add something to Redirected Force, add 5s snare than a 5s CD increase.

[Azarael]

Would that be medium punt with 5s snare?

You shouldn't tweak the abilities until we are at lvl 40. And even then you shouldn't tweak them before testing them thoroughly throughout the game at it's full potential. At what lvl we are, it doesn't matter and may reveal itself to be one of the biggest mistake you could have done, and I'm pretty sure that it will be in the forseeable future. You may all think that "you are right and it has to be done", but think twice about it.

When the problems with the class are already known to the extent that we see "LF KOTBS/IB for premade" in chat, I see no reason to wait until we have everything in the game, which could be years.

When we hit level 40, it'll be "but rr skills"
When we have RR skills, it'll be "but sov!"
When we have Sov, it'll be years after this point.